Why Do People Genuflect Before The Easter Vigil Mass?

[LouisvilleFan]

The tabernacle is empty with the doors open (just to make it obvious) until after Communion, but I couldn't help but notice that most people would kneel before sitting. I guess either they don't know why they're kneeling, they aren't aware that the tabernacle is empty, or they do it out of habit. I guess you're technically supposed to bow towards the altar, but there was definitely nobody doing that. Did anyone else notice this, or maybe catch themselves kneeling for no reason?

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1253262' date='Apr 22 2007, 05:20 PM']The tabernacle is empty with the doors open (just to make it obvious) until after Communion, but I couldn't help but notice that most people would kneel before sitting. I guess either they don't know why they're kneeling, they aren't aware that the tabernacle is empty, or they do it out of habit. I guess you're technically supposed to bow towards the altar, but there was definitely nobody doing that. Did anyone else notice this, or maybe catch themselves kneeling for no reason? [/quote]

The tabernacle in my parish is in a chapel, but faithful still genuflect when entering the pew all the time. It's ingrained in them - you can't stop it if you tried, but why would you? I guess at certain angle in church, you can see the tabernacle from the pew...its located behind the sanctuary in a chapel that abuts the main entry way. The chapel is the first thing you see when walking in the building, just to assuage the fears of you radtrads

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I don't genuflect at Easter Vigil. The emptiness of the tabernacle is the first thing that hits me. But I do kneel to pray when I go into my pew. It's not that I've forgotten, it's just that I prefer to pray kneeling down.

[Moneybags]

[quote][b]General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM 2003):[/b]

274. A genuflection, made by bending the right knee to the ground, signifies adoration, and therefore it is reserved for the Most Blessed Sacrament, as well as for the Holy Cross from the solemn adoration [b]during the liturgical celebration on Good Friday until the beginning of the Easter Vigil.[/b]

275. A bow signifies reverence and honor shown to the persons themselves or to the signs that represent them. There are two kinds of bows: a bow of the head and a bow of the body.

A) A bow of the head is made when the three Divine Persons are named together and at the names of Jesus, of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and of the Saint in whose honor Mass is being celebrated.
B) A bow of the body, that is to say a profound bow, is made to the altar; during the prayers Munda cor meum (Almighty God, cleanse my heart) and In spiritu humilitatis (Lord God, we ask you to receive); in the Creed at the words Et incarnatus est (by the power of the Holy Spirit . . . made man); in the Roman Canon at the words Supplices te rogamus (Almighty God, we pray that your angel). The same kind of bow is made by the deacon when he asks for a blessing before the proclamation of the Gospel. In addition, the priest bows slightly as he speaks the words of the Lord at the consecration.[/quote]

[kateri05]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1253354' date='Apr 22 2007, 04:30 PM']The chapel is the first thing you see when walking in the building, just to assuage the fears of you radtrads [/quote]

im not a radtrad by any stretch of the mind, but i would still consider that a legitimate concern. sorry if following the Church's guidelines seems schismatic

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='kateri05' post='1253720' date='Apr 22 2007, 10:04 PM']im not a radtrad by any stretch of the mind, but i would still consider that a legitimate concern. sorry if following the Church's guidelines seems schismatic [/quote]

And my layout does follow the norms Since it is not in the sanctuary, it is in a place where it is easily found and accessed. I would refer you to Build of Living Stones pp. 74 ff., with special attention paid to pp. 79-80.

There is no concern.

[LouisvilleFan]

I am amazed at how seemingly unrelated topics turn into yet another debate on sanctuary design and who's following the norms and who isn't. If it's a problem, go to your bishop... that's his job. I'm pretty sure nobody's bishop is on phatmass.

It appears that the quote from the GIRM indicates that we're still supposed to genuflect for the Holy Cross, which I presume is the crucifix that most sanctuaries have behind the altar? If you're in a sanctuary that doesn't, then I guess you don't kneel?

Or maybe it's just easier to genuflect anyway... I guess it's not a bad habit.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1253849' date='Apr 22 2007, 10:24 PM']And my layout does follow the norms Since it is not in the sanctuary, it is in a place where it is easily found and accessed. I would refer you to Build of Living Stones pp. 74 ff., with special attention paid to pp. 79-80.

There is no concern.[/quote]

Whether or not it's allowed, it is going against the traditions of the Church.

If I go into a church that doesn't have the tabernacle on the altar, I will genuflect to where-ever the tabernacle is and bow to the altar.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]I'm pretty sure nobody's bishop is on phatmass.[/quote]

I wouldn't be so sure...

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1254500' date='Apr 23 2007, 06:52 PM']I wouldn't be so sure...[/quote]

Most bishops have enough time to be Posting on Phatmass when they children to confirm, priests to ordain, bishops to consecrate, not to mention correcting all the liturgical abuses in their dioceses .

[Moneybags]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1254451' date='Apr 23 2007, 08:20 PM']Whether or not it's allowed, it is going against the traditions of the Church.

If I go into a church that doesn't have the tabernacle on the altar, I will genuflect to where-ever the tabernacle is and bow to the altar.[/quote]

Not only is that what I do, it is what should [b]always[/b] be done by Catholics.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1254509' date='Apr 23 2007, 09:58 PM']Most bishops have enough time to be Posting on Phatmass when they children to confirm, priests to ordain, bishops to consecrate, not to mention correcting all the liturgical abuses in their dioceses .[/quote]

I guess they wouldn't have to post anything, but even then I would be surprised if there are any bishops reading phatmass.

You bring up this issue of correcting liturgical abuses. That makes me wonder how exactly bishops do that? Do they send out "inspectors" to every parish, kinda like a secret shopper? Just about every Mass I go to has [i]something[/i] that breaks the GIRM. Sometimes I wish I was ignorant about that stuff, because it does have a way of taking the joy out of attending Mass.

[123]

Maybe the genuflection is all part of the Easter celebration? I kneel all the time, since our tabernacle is sorta hidden by a marble pillar screen, that away I know that if it is in there I have shown worship. If it is not, I know that my adoration has not gone in vain, since I am in the house of God.

Edited April 24, 2007 by GloriaIesusChristi

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1254241' date='Apr 23 2007, 03:26 PM']I am amazed at how seemingly unrelated topics turn into yet another debate on sanctuary design and who's following the norms and who isn't. If it's a problem, go to your bishop... that's his job. I'm pretty sure nobody's bishop is on phatmass.

It appears that the quote from the GIRM indicates that we're still supposed to genuflect for the Holy Cross, which I presume is the crucifix that most sanctuaries have behind the altar? If you're in a sanctuary that doesn't, then I guess you don't kneel?

Or maybe it's just easier to genuflect anyway... I guess it's not a bad habit.[/quote]


The Holy Cross is the cross we venerate on Good Friday, not simply the altar crucifix.

Genuflect or bow...the debate rages on through the ages.

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1254915' date='Apr 24 2007, 08:11 AM']I guess they wouldn't have to post anything, but even then I would be surprised if there are any bishops reading phatmass.

You bring up this issue of correcting liturgical abuses. That makes me wonder how exactly bishops do that? Do they send out "inspectors" to every parish, kinda like a secret shopper? Just about every Mass I go to has [i]something[/i] that breaks the GIRM. Sometimes I wish I was ignorant about that stuff, because it does have a way of taking the joy out of attending Mass.[/quote]

Bishops typcially will not go out in search of abuses. They generally rely on information being brought to them by God's people, but only after it has been addressed locally within the parish. Most bishops, except in the gravest matters of abuse, prefer not to discuss issues of liturgical abuse until the pastor has addressed it with the person.

The pastoral visit of the bishop is also a time for them to make sure things are running proerly at the parish. "Secret shoppers" would seem to undermine the fraternal relationship of the bishop to his priests. Things like this should be conducted openly and without pretense. Sending people out to secretly observe liturgical celebrations seesm contrary to the spirit of unity in Christ and celebration of the Lord's plan of salvation.

All that said, I know several bishops who do this...