kujo Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1251396' date='Apr 21 2007, 11:14 AM']So you all believe being born ANEW {Again} is unncessary? That entering into a relationship with Jesus Christ is unncessary? Get some water sprinkled on you as a unknowing baby, and supposely you are "born anew" It is about the FAITH not about the water. If that what you say is true, a priest can go to the public swimming pool right now and baptise a bunch of heathens without them even knowing it, and make "Christians" out of them all. [b] Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell from where it came, and where it goes: so is everyone that is born of the Spirit[/b][/quote] As usual, this demonstrates a lack of any real knowledge of Catholicism. We Baptize babies so that they enter into God's family, the Church. The parents (and godparents) are there to witness this sacrament, speaking on our behalf and promising to foster our religious upbringing and our faith walk until a time where we can make a decision for ourselves to live for Christ. Budge, I know you say you used to be Catholic or whatever, but how do you expect to be taken seriously when you make these sort of comments which show how ignorant of Catholic beliefs you are? You get on here and post links and quotes which you undoubtedly find on anti-Catholic websites that twist, contort and pervert our beliefs (**the TRUTH) into something that they're simply NOT. Simply put, remove your head from your rear and take a look at the world around you. Your aggressive "evangelizing" borders on harassment and bigotry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 [quote]We Baptize babies so that they enter into God's family, the Church. The parents (and godparents) are there to witness this sacrament, speaking on our behalf and promising to foster our religious upbringing and our faith walk until a time where we can make a decision for ourselves to live for Christ.[/quote] Baptizing a baby does not mean it has a relationship with Christ. one is to become baptized after they have come to knowing faith in Christ. It is an ordinance that shows one's new faith to the community. I was baptized and ended up a pagan UU, that means there is no "power" in the water. I didnt know Jesus. I had no relationship with Him. That is what I am trying to show you. I know endless atheists, agnostics, and people who havent set foot in a church in YEARS, who do not believe in Christianity [and OPENLY SAY SO] who were baptized as babies, they arent Christians, they arent born again. I certainly WAS NOT, until I came to faith in Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RezaMikhaeil Posted April 21, 2007 Author Share Posted April 21, 2007 Budge why do you keep dodging this scripture? [quote]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullTruth Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1251463' date='Apr 21 2007, 11:47 AM']Baptizing a baby does not mean it has a relationship with Christ. one is to become baptized after they have come to knowing faith in Christ. It is an ordinance that shows one's new faith to the community. I was baptized and ended up a pagan UU, that means there is no "power" in the water. I didnt know Jesus. I had no relationship with Him. That is what I am trying to show you. I know endless atheists, agnostics, and people who havent set foot in a church in YEARS, who do not believe in Christianity [and OPENLY SAY SO] who were baptized as babies, they arent Christians, they arent born again. I certainly WAS NOT, until I came to faith in Jesus Christ.[/quote] I am in agreement with Budge here. Baptism is for believers, not babies. You can ask all your questions, but the walk parents have with God protects their children until the children are of age! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 This is for Budge: what is the purpose of Baptism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 It is an ordinance and symbol of one's faith to the community, that is all. The ritual of being baptised is not what does the saving. The saving is via the FAITH in Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1251742' date='Apr 21 2007, 12:57 PM']It is an ordinance and symbol of one's faith to the community, that is all. The ritual of being baptised is not what does the saving. The saving is via the FAITH in Christ.[/quote] So Baptism has no purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 (edited) We are all born with the stain of original sin on our souls. This stain is not necessarily a reflection of a "personal fault" of the individual; rather, it is a "deprivation of original holiness and justice." And the Sacrament of Baptism "erases original sin and turns a man back toward God"; however, "the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle." (**NOTE: All quotations are taken from CCC #405**). [quote name='Budge' post='1251463' date='Apr 21 2007, 11:47 AM']Baptizing a baby does not mean it has a relationship with Christ. one is to become baptized after they have come to knowing faith in Christ.[/quote] Then what happens to people who dies before having the opportunity to have this faith in Jesus Christ? Edited April 21, 2007 by kujo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Gone Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 So if Man is bound to the sacraments, and Jesus set the sacraments in order to help us progress in grace. Is Budge officially elevating herself beyond man to the level of God? She re-writes scripture, disregards anything that "man" has ever said..hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrdero Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 [quote name='kujo' post='1251414' date='Apr 21 2007, 10:23 AM']As usual, this demonstrates a lack of any real knowledge of Catholicism. We Baptize babies so that they enter into God's family, the Church. The parents (and godparents) are there to witness this sacrament, speaking on our behalf and promising to foster our religious upbringing and our faith walk until a time where we can make a decision for ourselves to live for Christ.[/quote] Almost sounds like bookends. At funerals it seems that this ceremony is a ritual for the living not for the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathoholic_anonymous Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 [quote]At funerals it seems that this ceremony is a ritual for the living not for the dead.[/quote] It is for everyone in the family, the living and the dead. The Church knows no borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 (edited) [b][i]". . . the Christianity of history is not Protestantism. If ever there were a safe truth, it is this."[/i][/b] ~John Henry Newman, former Anglican clergyman and Catholic convert, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, Image Books, 1960, p. 34 FullTruth, Budge, any other so-called "Bible believer": "Believer's baptism" began with the Anabaptists in the 16th century. Wouldn't you rather believe what the Apostles taught in the first century A.D.? Likos Edited April 21, 2007 by Katholikos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullTruth Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1251742' date='Apr 21 2007, 02:57 PM']It is an ordinance and symbol of one's faith to the community, that is all. The ritual of being baptised is not what does the saving. The saving is via the FAITH in Christ.[/quote] Wrong! [quote name='Acts 2:38' date=' KJV']Then Peter said unto them, Repent, [b]and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins[/b], and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.[/quote] As a student of the english language, I know this one thing, when you have an idea inside of a comma it is all tied together, so the statement and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remissions of sins, God is communicating to us that baptism and remissions of sins are tied together. Argue against God and the language he uses to convey ideas! This goes well in hand for the Believer's baptism, because what baby has sinned? You have to know you have sinned, and repent of your sins, which God forgives, and then get baptized for God to remit your sins! Babies can't do that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Gone Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 so close, yet so far away. Do you feed a baby, even if it cant ask for food? Do you hold a baby, even if they can not tell you what love is? Do you change the baby, even if it does not know what illness is? You are making great progression in understanding the baptism "does" something, but you need to study just "what" it does, and how it is a step in the progress of a greater life changing-life long way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 [quote name='FullTruth' post='1251609' date='Apr 21 2007, 11:59 AM']I am in agreement with Budge here. Baptism is for believers, not babies. You can ask all your questions, but the walk parents have with God protects their children until the children are of age![/quote]Please provide the scripture citations for your statements. Thank you. Likos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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