The Theory Of Being "born Again"

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1251124' date='Apr 20 2007, 09:05 PM']The New Testament hadn't been applied yet, because the Christ was still alive.

So the man who proclaimed Jesus Christ did nothing to be on the Cross was proclaiming Jesus Christ to be saviour. Being on the Cross prevented him from being Baptized, wouldn't you think. But identifying the Christ also saves someone who can't be baptized.

However, being baptized has been doctrine from the day of Pentecost - from Peter's own words!

I expect that the 120 were also baptized that day.[/quote]

Interesting theology, that's very interesting.

[kujo]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1251085' date='Apr 20 2007, 11:52 PM']Definately, what about the man on the cross next to Jesus Christ? He wasn't baptised but Jesus said that he'd be in heaven![/quote]

An important thing to remember is God's overwhelming, all-consuming mercy and love for us, His children. Our God does not sit up in Heaven on some chair, looking down on our planet, conspiring on ways to keep us OUT of Heaven; rather, He longs to be united with us in the Beatific Vision. While Our Lord is equally-just, it's still important that He is not bound by rules...

[RezaMikhaeil]

I'd agree that he's not bound by our rules but we're bound by his rules and he acts within thoughs bounds.

[N/A Gone]

"Man is bound by the sacraments, God is not"
-Augustine

[kujo]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1251189' date='Apr 21 2007, 12:57 AM']I'd agree that he's not bound by our rules but we're bound by his rules and he acts within thoughs bounds.[/quote]

He "acts within those bounds?" What the heck does that mean? Is that like God catching a pass on the sideline and having to have both feet in-bounds in order for the reception to count?

Refer to the above quotation from St. Augustine.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='kujo' post='1251198' date='Apr 20 2007, 10:07 PM']He "acts within those bounds?" What the heck does that mean? Is that like God catching a pass on the sideline and having to have both feet in-bounds in order for the reception to count?

Refer to the above quotation from St. Augustine.[/quote]

Simple: In the Old Testament [for example] God told Adam and Eve that they would be perfect communion with him, if they didn't sin but they chose to sin and therefore the perfect communion was lost and they were no longer with God. Does this mean that God couldn't have said "ah, you sinned... no biggie" surely God could have but God is a God of Truth, and therefore the truth is the bounds in which God choses to live.

It's true that God could [and might] allow Muslims to get into heaven [despite not being Christians] but does this mean that Muslims are guarenteed paradise? No, rather the only way to be sure, is through the method in which God designed. We can't deny God's truth and then wait for him to bless us.

[Katholikos]

The Protestants in this discussion write as if "born again" is used several times in Scripture. I think not. It's found only in John 3:3-5 and is translated from the Greek word, [i]anothen,[/i] which has three meanings: from above, anew, and again. Here's the discourse with Nicodemus:

Jesus: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew [[i]anothen[/i]], he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Nic misunderstands: "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"

Jesus: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven."

Born from above, or anew, or again, of water and Spirit can't mean anything other than Baptism in the Scriptures. John the Baptist says, "one will come after me who will baptize you with water and the Spirit."

The footnote to the RSV says: "5. Birth into the New Order is through [i]water [/i](referring to Baptism; 1.33, Eph 5.26) and [i]the Spirit[/i] (Ezek 36.25-27, Tit 3.5)."

Every baptized Christian has been born again, or anew, or from above, by water and the Spirit.

That "born again" means the emotional experience related to "accepting Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior" or "turning my life over to God" or "giving my heart to Jesus," or any of the other terms Protestants use to describe what they call the "born again" experience is not biblical; it appears nowhere in Scripture.

It seems strange to me that folks who claim to base their faith on Scripture Only would follow an unbiblical practice, and one that is so central to their religion.

Not all Protestants believe this, however. The older, mainline liturgical churches such as Lutherans and Episcopalians are the exception.

We have a demonstration of a denominational split right here before us with Budge stating that water baptism isn't necessary and FullTruth saying that one can't be saved without it. And neither of them can call on any authority to settle the dispute. Each is his/her only authority in biblical interpretation. Ay, there's the rub.

Scriptures quoted from the RSV Protestant Bible.

Likos

[carrdero]

[quote]Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.[/quote]

And all this time I thought these scriptures were supporting reincarnation.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1251332' date='Apr 21 2007, 05:38 AM']And all this time I thought these scriptures were supporting reincarnation.[/quote]

LOL

Note: I find it funny that Budge isn't posting on this topic, we didn't scare her away did we?

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1251332' date='Apr 21 2007, 05:38 AM']And all this time I thought these scriptures were supporting reincarnation.[/quote]

LOL

Note: I find it funny that Budge isn't posting on this topic, we didn't scare her away did we?

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1251332' date='Apr 21 2007, 05:38 AM']And all this time I thought these scriptures were supporting reincarnation.[/quote]

LOL

Note: I find it funny that Budge isn't posting on this topic, we didn't scare her away did we?

[Budge]

So you all believe being born ANEW {Again} is unncessary?

That entering into a relationship with Jesus Christ is unncessary?

Get some water sprinkled on you as a unknowing baby, and supposely you are "born anew"

It is about the FAITH not about the water.

If that what you say is true, a priest can go to the public swimming pool right now and baptise a bunch of heathens without them even knowing it, and make "Christians" out of them all.
[b]
Joh 3:8
The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell from where it came, and where it goes: so is everyone that is born of the Spirit[/b]

Edited April 21, 2007 by Budge

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Budge' post='1251396' date='Apr 21 2007, 08:14 AM']So you all believe being born ANEW {Again} is unncessary?

That entering into a relationship with Jesus Christ is unncessary?

Get some water sprinkled on you as a unknowing baby, and supposely you are "born anew"

It is about the FAITH not about the water.

If that what you say is true, a priest can go to the public swimming pool right now and baptise a bunch of heathens without them even knowing it, and make "Christians" out of them all.
[b]
Joh 3:8
The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell from where it came, and where it goes: so is everyone that is born of the Spirit[/b][/quote]

I'm not sure if you're aware budge but Full Truth isn't a Roman Catholic [or any Catholic for that matter]. He just simply posted that scripture that mentions spirit and water.

Budge are you denying Jesus's words?

[quote]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.[/quote]

Budge I never thought that you'd put your own words and theology, above Jesus Christ himself! I very much pity you...

Reza

Edited April 21, 2007 by RezaLemmyng

[Budge]

Full Truth has his own confused theology...

Ive spent as much time trying to correct him as anyone else here. Even the Latter Rain stuff he admits he is into is part of this.

more departure from Gods Word, that is what causes these errors.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Budge' post='1251408' date='Apr 21 2007, 08:20 AM']Full Truth has his own confused theology...

Ive spent as much time trying to correct him as anyone else here. Even the Latter Rain stuff he admits he is into is part of this.

more departure from Gods Word, that is what causes these errors.[/quote]

So you deny that Jesus said we should be born of spirit and water?

How do you explain:

[quote]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.[/quote]