Lust In Marriage

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Budge' post='1251506' date='Apr 21 2007, 09:01 AM']That judge was totally wrong....

[url="http://family-law.freeadvice.com/divorce_law/divorce-dissolution.htm"]http://family-law.freeadvice.com/divorce_l...dissolution.htm[/url]

[color="#FF0000"]Sorry but I trust a judge alot more then I do your little person info sights.[/color]

No I do not. EVERY STATE teaches for a marriage to be valid there has to be sexual intercourse.

[color="#FF0000"]Sorry but no they don't.[/color]

So what were you trying to "prove" with this "self control"?

[color="#FF0000"]That you don't have none, I guess...[/color]

Obviously you have some major issues regarding sex, that even sex in marriage is wrong, if it took you several years to get around to it.

[color="#FF0000"]A classic case of Budge putting words into people's mouths, I never said that sex inside of marriage is wrong, I just said that sex itself isn't the Sacrament but Marriage is the Sacrament and every point in the Marriage has equal value, something that you repeately deny.[/color]

I think your wife assented to your desires, out of love for you so wether it was mutual is questionable. I knew of someone once who married a man who struggled with same sex desires, who refused to have sexual intercourse as well for years after the marriage, they ended up seperating in that case.

[color="#FF0000"]Here's the trip: You've assumed that I withheld from her, that is not even remotely the truth. You're pretty much came up with this conclusion based upon what? Based upon your lack of knowledge about my marriage. As a matter of fact, you've pretty much pulled it out of your butt [like most everything else you say on this message board]. I've never shared that I withheld from her or she withheld from me, as it's none of your business and I'd repeatedly said that it was a mutual decision [which you can't wrap your head around, because you don't have self control, and don't understand the idea of a couple mutually agreeing with anything, and belief that sex itself is the sacrament, not marriage].[/color]

You did, from first post.

[color="#FF0000"]No I didn't, I never said that I withheld from her, because that's not even remotely the truth[/color]

Otherwise tell us, what was the reason?

[color="#FF0000"]See this is your problem Budge, when people don't provide you with information, you attempt to make your own information up, in order to make your agenda. The reason was simple, we were both deeply in love with each other and with God and chose to spend our nights talking with each other, fasting, reading scriptures and in prayer. I know that such a deep spiritual connection is nearly impossible for you to grasp but please learn to take it for what it is...[/color]

And how do you know about my connections to others. I dont discuss my personal life much here, but I do know as far as marriage goes what a good one is about.
Soulmates that never have sex are simply best friends.

[color="#FF0000"]No you don't know what a good marriage is about, you're a manipulating individual, that doesn't know much about a deep spiritual connection. That manipulates people and if you can't manipulate, you simply make up your own conclusions based upon nothing more then your creative mind. There's so much about the sacrament of marriage that you have to learn, and I wouldn't advise marriage for anyone like you, until after you get deep and intensive psychological help.[/color][/quote]

[thessalonian]

[quote name='kateri05' post='1250934' date='Apr 20 2007, 10:12 PM']marriage is indeed "about" having children. procreation is the PRIMARY end of the sacrament of marriage. you keep acting as though i am denying the spiritual element of the relationship, which i am not. this is crucial to a successful relationship.

however, you seem to be saying that the physical element of marriage - the good which God created so that we could show forth love with our bodies, image Him and be co-creators with Him - is somehow subordinate to that. that is incorrect.
lol and i'm sorry that cs lewis, a respected theologian by both protestant and catholics, is below your standards. would you like me to cite john paul II on the theology of the body. cuz what, he thinks sex is great : (edit, for those called to marriage of course!)[/quote]


It's kinda like saying the main purpose of food tasting good is so we can enjoy the taste. That is certainly a part of eating, ie. giving glory to God for the goodness of food. But it's not the primary purpose. One who enjoys the taste but sticks their finger down their throat will die of hunger.

[thessalonian]

[quote]Maybe in your home country, but thats not true in America. I know that for a fact. In every state in America, that for a marriage to be valid, it has to be consummated, otherwise you can go get an annulment that says you were never married. If your Judge was American, he was wrong.[/quote]

This has generally been the view of the Church but I highly doudt it is law in this country and will ask you to show proof (not that I expect to get any because you've never shown any before for your positions). So does the IRS stop by and check, "oh sorry no joint return for you, you haven't consumated your marriage yet so your not married".

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1251370' date='Apr 21 2007, 08:55 AM']Micah if thats the definition of lust you all are using, I agree then,. It should be avoided.[/quote]
I can't speak for everyone here, but it's the way the Catholic Church sees lust...love is a ordered (meaning that it seeks the things it should) and lust is a disordered desire (meaning it seeks the things it shouldn't).

Lust can also be seen as falling under a violation of the First Commandment in an indirect way. By lusting, a person seeks to use someone as an object for pleasure, rather than to be in communion with someone they love. By extension, lust is using a gift of God in a way God did not intend. Therefore, logically, lust chooses something (a way of treating a person) over God's plan (how you should treat a person) and therefore, in committing lust, a person indirectly is choosing something over God.

Of course, all sins are indirectly violations of the First Commandment, since all sins place one's own will over God's.

[thessalonian]

Budge,

Do you think there will be lust in heaven even among husband and wife? If not then it is sin. If it did not exist before the fall it is sin.

Edited April 21, 2007 by thessalonian

[jckinsman]

I think "Lust in marriage" was the topic! I think the definition of lust can be distorted. What does it really mean? ..........Instead of going on long debates on what constitutes, when a marriage "is a marriage"... We do know this..............God made us..........God gave us a body............God made male........God made Female (so far so good right????) Now..what was God's purpose for "sex"????? Thats not a tough one!?!? PROCREATION .......am I wrong???? Now givin' that, God also gave women a very strong hormone,it Bonds us to our husbands, through sexual intercourse.....and it bonds us to our babies.....through nursing! Thats pretty easy to understand why God made it that way.God made hormones. Ever wonder why the young girl having sex stays with that "stupid" boy that uses her.??HORMONES! Battered wife??? HORMONES! That it why all these women walk away wondering "where did I go wrong?" (I could jump on the soap box here,I'll refrain) The truth is God had a beautiful Plan for married love....Not what the government says....... not what I say.......Not even what the person who has a masters in human sexuality, has to say...we can listen,but what are all of us really hearing? ......... I'am a mother of six (unless GOD has other plans) I love my husband,I love my children ,I love His plan for marriage ........if we listen to him! My husband, raised in a not so good enviorment, could tell you many stories of how the lines of love and lust can get distorted. This is really where a well formed conscience will come in handy.!! If you really want to understand ,a catholic's veiw of this you have to read what Pope John Paul has written on this. Notice I said "UNDERSTAND", meaning, if you really want to argue with us on this, you should understand where we are coming from................ right???????.............If what you are doing in the bedroom makes either of you uncomfortable ,you'd better check your conscience!.............Pray that it is well-formed!

Edited April 21, 2007 by jckinsman

[Budge]

[quote]
See this is your problem Budge, when people don't provide you with information, you attempt to make your own information up, in order to make your agenda. The reason was simple, we were both deeply in love with each other and with God and chose to spend our nights talking with each other, fasting, reading scriptures and in prayer. I know that such a deep spiritual connection is nearly impossible for you to grasp but please learn to take it for what it is...
[/quote]I just asked the question of why?. Im not the guy trying to defend the indefensible.

I still think unless you and your wife were very young--ie via an arranged marriage, or one of those other reasons I listed-health and otherwise, that to forgo relations is not normal.

From what you have written here, you seem to think that those who have sex in marriage seem to lack something. Just helping to back up my claims that there is dysfunctional attitudes towards sex, even sex between married couples within Catholicism.
[quote]

No you don't know what a good marriage is about, you're a manipulating individual, that doesn't know much about a deep spiritual connection.[/quote]

You know I talked about this to a friend, didnt name names, and they said straight out..."He's gay and wanted a beard". Most of the world doesnt see you as normal including Christians so if youre not going to come up with the reason you refused your wife relations for several years beyond sex would have ruined our special "spiritual connection", Im not buying it. A normal healthy hetero man with a normal healthy hetero wife doesnt leave her untouched for YEARS.

[quote]


That manipulates people and if you can't manipulate, you simply make up your own conclusions based upon nothing more then your creative mind.[/quote]Actually I think the dude who has managed to manipulate a woman who deserves a loving husband and all that entails into going without for years, is much more of a master of manipulation then I am.

[quote]
There's so much about the sacrament of marriage that you have to learn, and I wouldn't advise marriage for anyone like you, until after you get deep and intensive psychological help.[/quote]

I have been happily married for years. by the way he thinks you arent right either....

[Budge]

[quote]Do you think there will be lust in heaven even among husband and wife?[/quote]

There isnt any marriage between people in heaven, read your bible...

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Budge' post='1251735' date='Apr 21 2007, 01:51 PM']There isnt any marriage between people in heaven, read your bible...[/quote]
I read the bible most every day. (been missing some lately because work is very busy).

I didn't ask if there was marriage in heaven. I asked if there was lust. Was there lust before the fall? "they were naked and unashamed". Read yours and understand it if you would. Oh wait, you can't, your not Catholic.

I can understand that your not getting this because it is clear that you do not know what lover truly is or understand it. Therefore how could you possibly understand the difference between love and lust?

Blessings

Edited April 21, 2007 by thessalonian