Example Of Taking Mary

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Double post. Nothing to see here. Pay no attention to the Secret Jesuit Spy Subliminal Message in this post.

Edited April 16, 2007 by Justin (Wiccan)

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1245819' date='Apr 16 2007, 03:24 PM'] oh boy, we're being defended by wiccans [/quote]Truth is truth and is recognizable by many peoples of many beliefs. I know you don't mean this seriously, but it is indicative of some who will disregard, demean, or distrust anything said or proposed by a non-Christian or non-Catholic. That's why so many Catholics are uncomfortable with Mother Theresa saying that if you are going to be a Hindu, be a good Hindu. Anything that is good is of God. I admire Justin's intellectual honesty.

[jckinsman]

Hello freinds! I expect "full truth" to be here soon, to stir this up even more! Justin,Hi! I read what you said, and I can agree with some of the statements you make! Its really hard for me though to think about The wiccan,faith??? Religon??? UMMMM.... I lived next to you guys at my old house and they really do some really interesting things......you are loved too, by Christ, on your journey! Peace be with you justin! Getting back to Mary,....I found that the book by Scott Hahn, Hail Holy Queen, Was helpful in explaining things. Scott puts it in a way you can understand what and why we believe what we do>Ask yourselves though, Do you really want to know? or Do you just want to argue the point!???? Once you swallow a little of your pride milkshake, you will come to know your" mother" as Christ made her, for us! I hate to break it to you ,as much as you really want to believe we worship her,,,,,,,,,,We don't.! JC

Edited April 16, 2007 by jckinsman

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]oh boy, we're being defended by wiccans [/quote]

I have been defended by a Sunni Muslim before now. I was talking to some self-proclaimed 'liberal' Catholics who didn't know the first thing about Christianity. One of them even wrote, "Jesus Christ! God's not a [i]person[/i]!" before going on to explain that God is an incorporeal 'force' and we can choose whether to fight this 'force' or align ourselves with it. They evidently found me and my Trinity too inconvenient (apparently I'm a 'brainwashed fundamentalist') and they blocked me from the discussion. When I visited the message board a few days later (I was blocked from posting, not from reading) I discovered that my Muslim best friend was vigorously making the case for the Trinity. It made me smile.

[Phoenix Reborn]

If they're Catholic or not, they're your brother or sister in Christ. You have a chance of being defended by anyone.

Edited April 16, 2007 by Phoenix Reborn

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1245870' date='Apr 16 2007, 02:27 PM']I have been defended by a Sunni Muslim before now. I was talking to some self-proclaimed 'liberal' Catholics who didn't know the first thing about Christianity. One of them even wrote, "Jesus Christ! God's not a [i]person[/i]!" before going on to explain that God is an incorporeal 'force' and we can choose whether to fight this 'force' or align ourselves with it. They evidently found me and my Trinity too inconvenient (apparently I'm a 'brainwashed fundamentalist') and they blocked me from the discussion. When I visited the message board a few days later (I was blocked from posting, not from reading) I discovered that my Muslim best friend was vigorously making the case for the Trinity. It made me smile.[/quote]
yeah ... I have a friend who is Muslim and she and I have made some surprising connections spiritually. We actually each deeply respect the other's faith, even though there are fundamental areas of disagreement.

[kujo]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1245819' date='Apr 16 2007, 03:24 PM'] oh boy, we're being defended by wiccans

:double checks IP address to be sure it's not a Jesuit conspiracy:... nope, no jesuit cospiracy found.

still a bit unsettling haha :[/quote]


[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1245870' date='Apr 16 2007, 04:27 PM']I have been defended by a Sunni Muslim before now...I discovered that my Muslim best friend was vigorously making the case for the Trinity. It made me smile.[/quote]


[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1245898' date='Apr 16 2007, 04:51 PM']yeah ... I have a friend who is Muslim and she and I have made some surprising connections spiritually. We actually each deeply respect the other's faith, even though there are fundamental areas of disagreement.[/quote]

This is the sort of stuff that makes Budge's head spin around while she spits up split-pea soup.

[img]http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/exorcist_vomit.jpg[/img]

[Katholikos]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1245805' date='Apr 16 2007, 02:11 PM']If her only power is prayer, why praise her for things she has no power to do?

Is doctrincal exactness and correctness such a bad thing? Would you allow a Protestant to make inccorect statements and excuse it by saying, "I'm using the language of love?"[/quote]

I have absolutely no control over a Protestant's statements. He may -- and does -- make incorrect statements in any mode or language he wishes.

Catholics speak in "shorthand." When I and other Catholics pray to Mary, we omit the unnecessary words. Most of us, that is. You, of course, if your screen name indicates that you are Catholic, are, I assume, the exception.

I could say: 'Mary, please pray to your Divine Son on my behalf and ask him to save me from every danger.' But I don't. "Save me from every danger" eliminates about 13 words and saves the time it takes to say them. The Blessed Mother knows what I mean, and I know what I mean, so the words are not necessary, except to satisfy the Protestants (and others) who don't understand prayer to the saints anyway. It's really not the words they object to -- it's prayer to the saints, period. But any friend of God's is a friend of mine. That certainly includes His Mother.

Likos
Ex-Protestant, agnostic, atheist

[Sojourner]

gross

the Exorcist, not Likos. Likos is the opposite of gross.

Edited April 16, 2007 by Terra Firma

[jckinsman]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1245870' date='Apr 16 2007, 03:27 PM']I have been defended by a Sunni Muslim before now. I was talking to some self-proclaimed 'liberal' Catholics who didn't know the first thing about Christianity. One of them even wrote, "Jesus Christ! God's not a [i]person[/i]!" before going on to explain that God is an incorporeal 'force' and we can choose whether to fight this 'force' or align ourselves with it. They evidently found me and my Trinity too inconvenient (apparently I'm a 'brainwashed fundamentalist') and they blocked me from the discussion. When I visited the message board a few days later (I was blocked from posting, not from reading) I discovered that my Muslim best friend was vigorously making the case for the Trinity. It made me smile.[/quote]

PRAISE GOD! I LOVE IT!

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote]I know someone who says his wife saved his life, that he would have become an alcoholic if he had never met her. Did she literally and directly save his life? No, and neither does the idea negate the fact that God ultimately is our savior.[/quote]

This is kinda like apples and oranges, unlike the man in your example, St. Mary didn't save Jesus, rather Jesus saved St. Mary. It would also be wrong to speculate that if St. Mary hasn't have said, "let it be so" and allowed Jesus to be incarnate through her, then Jesus would have found somebody else. Jesus isn't bound by any human beings, saying that he is... is no different then Protestant "end times" fanatics that believe that we can keep the end times from happening "if we just do this... politically".

In regards to the statement of Protestants disagreement with Roman Catholics, it isn't just Protestants but Orthodox also heavily disagree with Roman Catholics.

Reza

[TotusTuusMaria]

[center]J.M.J.[/center]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1245780' date='Apr 16 2007, 01:41 PM']I guess what I disagree with is the tendency to give Mary praise for redmeptive action, but then qualify it with "but we alll know Jesus really does it through her." If Jesus does it, then let's praise him for it, not his mother. Mary is of course am inportant part of the church, but we may need to adjust our emphasis on her. J2P2 had a very strong Marian devotion that I think sometimes clouded his overall view of the world. Why should our prayers be doctrinaly questionable, but poeticly beautiful? Didn't you read Liturgican Authenticum? Poeticism cannot trump sound doctrine. Why pray on feeble theological ground becuase it sounds nice?[/quote]

" No one for whom Mary has once prayed will taste the sorrows of Hell.
If I have the Mother of Mercy (the Mother of the Judge) to defend me, who will dare to say that the Judge will refuse me mercy when I come before Him?"
- St. Alphonsus de Liguori

I think that kind of helps to explain what St. Alphonsus meant by his words. Thank you from saving me from hell, does not mean that it was by your merits that I was saved from hell, but rather thanking you for saving me from hell by your intercession. I think it is perfectly alright.

JPII also, questioned his devotion to Mary at one period in time, but concluded that one can never give enough honor and love to Mary, for she is the Mother of God. She is the Queen of Heaven. All honor and praise given to her, only can give much more honor and praise and glory to God, for it was God himself who merited her state for her and willed it. To honor her is to give glory to God and honor the work he has done for her. As Mary says in the Gospels, "My soul doth magnify the Lord." In turn, all praise given to her "doth magnify the Lord."

To say that St. Alphonsus de Ligurori, a doctor of the Church, believed and prayed things doctrinally unsound is laughable.

[quote]BTW, if you removed "gate of heaven" I would love J2P2's prayer because it directs the faithful towards Christ, a characteristic of rightly order Marian devotion. They prayer also speaks of assisting, not redeeming or saving. That's all we can do - assist. We [i]assist [/i]at Mass, we [i]assist [/i]in salvation. We can't [i]do [/i]it ourselves.[/quote]

Have your read Glories of Mary by St. Alphonsus de Ligurori? I suggest you read it. Also, the Church has said what a true Marian devotion is, and they agree that St. Alphonsus de Ligurori had a TRUE Marian devotion. Everything he wrote about Mary was doctrinally ok. If anything had been wrong with anything he said then they never would have made him a doctor of the Church.

God bless you. May Our Lady keep you!

In Jesus and Mary,
Marie

[jeffpugh]

[quote]"Most holy, immaculate Virgin and my Mother Mary! To you who are the Mother of my Lord, the Queen of the world, the Advocate, the Hope, and the Refuge of sinners, I have recourse today, I who am the most miserable of all. I render you my most humble homage, O great Queen, and I thank you for all the graces you have conferred on me until now, especially for having delivered me from hell, which I have so often deserved. I love you, O most amiable Lady; and for the love which I bear you, I promise to serve you always and to do all in my power to make others love you also. I place in you all my hopes; I confide my salvation to your care. Accept me for your servant and receive me under your mantle, O Mother of Mercy. And since you are so powerful with God, deliver me from all temptations; or rather, obtain to me the strength to triumph over them until death. Of you I ask a perfect love for Jesus Christ. Through you I hope to die a good death. O my Mother, by the love which you bear to God, I beseech you to help me at all times, but especially at the last moment of my life. Leave me not, I beseech you, until you see me safe in heaven, blessing you and singing your mercies for all eternity. Amen. So I hope. So may it be."[/quote]

I have not read the other posts, I'm just replying to the original. I have to say that prayer is not overdone, because it is still focused on God as the centre and source of all power and mercy. Plus, if she was good enough for God, she's good enough for us. Totus tuus Maria!

[TotusTuusMaria]

[center]J.M.J.[/center]

[quote]If her only power is prayer, why praise her for things she has no power to do?

Is doctrincal exactness and correctness such a bad thing? Would you allow a Protestant to make inccorect statements and excuse it by saying, "I'm using the language of love?"[/quote]


No one has praised her for things she had no power to do.

I can't agree with saying that Marian prayers are not theologically correct. They all are (at least those by our saints and Catholic authors that have been approved by the Church), or else they would be condemned.

You cannot limit your devotion to Mary, for it only draws you closer to Jesus himself. It only gives MORE honor to God. God is the one who filled Mary with grace and made her who she is. He did everything for her. Her soul truly doth magnify the Lord, and all praise given to her for her goodness, her compassion, her beauty, and her power all magnify the Lord. One is only giving God more honor by praising the glories he has bestowed upon his creatures! All the saints give honor to God, and all prayers too the saints, especially the Blessed Mother, give honor and glory to God.

The Mother always points toward her Son. It does not matter what you say to her, she will always point toward her Son and she will always magnify the Lord, just as our prayers to her and about her magnify the Lord and give glory to Him.

In Jesus and Mary,
Marie

[jckinsman]

Is there anything written any where or is anyone ever curious about all those years that Mary and Joseph spent with Jesus before he showed back up on the scene at the wedding??? That was alot of years!?? JC