Is All That God Left Us Was A Book?

[dairygirl4u2c]

if they acknowledge abortion isn't per se in the bible, or acknowledge you have to reason and gain insight and listen to elders and a degree of tradition, it's not as i thought you characterized in the first post of the thread.

if your beef is not taking history into consideration enough, i think you could right tag most protestants by far. it's a legit concern. your first post seemed to indicate you thought prots were not taking anything into consideration outside what they thought the bible said at all.
(as to the issue of their taking history into consideration though, i think they're not completely unreasonable. it's been said, and i think rightly so, that the bible is ambiguous, but history is ten times as ambiguous)
(except i'm not sure i'd say that about the eucharist in the CC, which is why i've considered being a catholic who doesn't believe infallibility or a shade of orthodoxy, but am still deciding. i'm unique in that point. which makes your point well... i'm like one in a million and i believe what i do, how sane is that? though many catholics prob believe that, given the stats of what catholcs believe, they just don't articulate it or have reasons)

Edited April 16, 2007 by dairygirl4u2c

[thessalonian]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1245866' date='Apr 16 2007, 03:22 PM']if they acknowledge abortion isn't per se in the bible, or acknowledge you have to reason and gain insight and listen to elders and a degree of tradition, it's not as i thought you characterized in the first post of the thread.

if your beef is not taking history into consideration enough, i think you could right tag most protestants by far. it's a legit concern. your first post seemed to indicate you thought prots were not taking anything into consideration outside what they thought the bible said at all.
(as to the issue of their taking history into consideration though, i think they're not completely unreasonable. it's been said, and i think rightly so, that the bible is ambiguous, but history is ten times as ambiguous)
(except i'm not sure i'd say that about the eucharist in the CC, which is why i've considered being a catholic who doesn't believe infallibility or a shade of orthodoxy, but am still deciding. i'm unique in that point. which makes your point well... i'm like one in a million and i believe what i do, how sane is that? though many catholics prob believe that, given the stats of what catholcs believe, they just don't articulate it or have reasons)[/quote]


I am quite clearly talking about sacred oral tradition which involves history of course because it is passed along from one to another throughout history. Catholic teaching in it's elements is contiguous throughtout history. In Protestantism we have some guy stand up in the 1500 stand up and say "SOLA SCRIPTURA" and a bunch of people follow after him. Another guy says "Pre-trib Rapture" in the 1800's and a bunch follow after him. Just two of the thousand or more examples.

I am not just talking history, but history with regard to faith and morals. And the ambiguity is more imagined and created by the likes of Lorainne Boetner, Alexander Hislop, and many others.

You can't be a Catholic and recieve the Eucharist and deny infallibility. Sorry. They will not or should not let you enter the Church.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1245866' date='Apr 16 2007, 03:22 PM']if they acknowledge abortion isn't per se in the bible, or acknowledge you have to reason and gain insight and listen to elders and a degree of tradition, it's not as i thought you characterized in the first post of the thread.

if your beef is not taking history into consideration enough, i think you could right tag most protestants by far. it's a legit concern. your first post seemed to indicate you thought prots were not taking anything into consideration outside what they thought the bible said at all.
(as to the issue of their taking history into consideration though, i think they're not completely unreasonable. it's been said, and i think rightly so, that the bible is ambiguous, but history is ten times as ambiguous)
(except i'm not sure i'd say that about the eucharist in the CC, which is why i've considered being a catholic who doesn't believe infallibility or a shade of orthodoxy, but am still deciding. i'm unique in that point. which makes your point well... i'm like one in a million and i believe what i do, how sane is that? though many catholics prob believe that, given the stats of what catholcs believe, they just don't articulate it or have reasons)[/quote]


I am quite clearly talking about sacred oral tradition which involves history of course because it is passed along from one to another throughout history. Catholic teaching in it's elements is contiguous throughtout history. In Protestantism we have some guy stand up in the 1500 stand up and say "SOLA SCRIPTURA" and a bunch of people follow after him. Another guy says "Pre-trib Rapture" in the 1800's and a bunch follow after him. Just two of the thousand or more examples.

I am not just talking history, but history with regard to faith and morals. And the ambiguity is more imagined and created by the likes of Lorainne Boetner, Alexander Hislop, and many others.

You can't be a Catholic and recieve the Eucharist and deny infallibility. Sorry. They will not or should not let you enter the Church.

[Katholikos]

Dairygirl, you're a long way from home. Here is the Profession of Faith one must make when they are received into the Catholic Church:

[b]"I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God."[/b]

Emphasis on the word [b][i]ALL[/i].[/b]

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1245997' date='Apr 16 2007, 05:38 PM']Dairygirl, you're a long way from home. Here is the Profession of Faith one must make when they are received into the Catholic Church:

[b]"I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God."[/b]

Emphasis on the word [b][i]ALL[/i].[/b][/quote]
Yep. They get the babies to say that when they're baptised.

[thessalonian]

"Trust not in your own understanding" != Anomaly. Okay back to ignore.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1246106' date='Apr 16 2007, 06:56 PM']"Trust not in your own understanding" != Anomaly. Okay back to ignore.[/quote]Thank you. You help me become a better person by being an example of what not to be.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1246125' date='Apr 16 2007, 06:16 PM']Thank you. You help me become a better person by being an example of what not to be.[/quote]


I am sure the board agrees with you. Anomoly, the one man wonder of truth.

Edited April 17, 2007 by thessalonian

[N/A Gone]

Anomaly, I have heard you speak of your background as a catholic educator in order to lend credibility to your words. You do understand that with a comment such as the "I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God." being for babies that you lose almost all that credibility if someone knows the source.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1246529' date='Apr 16 2007, 10:23 PM']Anomaly, I have heard you speak of your background as a catholic educator in order to lend credibility to your words. You do understand that with a comment such as the "I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God." being for babies that you lose almost all that credibility if someone knows the source.[/quote]The point is, that phrase is being misapplied and taken out of context. When, during the Sacraments of Initiation, is that phrase used in the context of this thread and conversation with dairy? Is infant baptism substantially different than the baptism of adults? Baptism isn't just Baptising into the Roman Catholic Church, it is becoming a member of Christ. The Church is fully aware of this.

[quote]1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they]are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."82[/quote]It is horrific to me that dairy, or any person who may not be Baptised, believe that they should not or cannot not be Baptised unless they fully believe and agree with everything they 'think' the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Baptism is the foundation of faith and sure grace. It is NOT all the Graces of Initiation or all the Graces of Salvation.
As is typical of religious zealots of whatever denomination, they are more concerned with emphasising what 'isn't' their denomination instead of sharing the beauty of God's Grace being made available.

[dairygirl4u2c]

i bet he tens to fail to realize you have to choose to be catholic given the evience,and the CC doesnt choose that or shouldn't choose that for you. he's not immune from making a choice. given the choice you have to look at the evidence and are accountable for your choice.

that thes was clearly taling about prots should take history etc into consideration more isn't clear from the foundation of the thread. the first posts mention nothing about it, and the title is even "is all god left us a book". if he ackowledges that moost prots take traditoin into consideration some, then that title isn't very good is it. maybe better would be "shouldn't prots take tradition into consideration more" to that effect. that he thinks it's clear this thread, just goes to show how he bases his reasoning that being catholic is the obvious and only rational choice given the evidence. he takes gut reaction to the poitn of clarity to him, probably even to the point he doesn't even realize it. i can see why anomaly equated thes with akalyte, they are just zeolots who say unfounded things. "clearly this" etc, or don't at least aknowledge the weight of conter evidence.

[thessalonian]

God bless you dairy.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1246574' date='Apr 16 2007, 09:50 PM']It is horrific to me that dairy, or any person who may not be Baptised, believe that they should not or cannot not be Baptised unless they fully believe and agree with everything they 'think' the Roman Catholic Church teaches.[/quote]

My understanding was that Dairygirl said she might become a Catholic only for the Eucharist, since she doesn't believe in the other teachings of the Church.

Thessalonian responded that she would not (should not) be allowed.

I posted the Profession of Faith that every adult convert is required to make as confirmation of what Thessalonian said.

One cannot be baptized a [b][i]Catholic[/i][/b] unless one fully believes and agrees with everything the Catholic Church teaches. One certainly may be baptized as a Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptist, or in the Apostolic Overcoming Holy Church of God, Inc., or in the Triumph the Church and Kingdom of God International, or in any of the many thousands of other Protestant denominations one may choose. One MAY be saved outside the Catholic Church, but it's risky to take that chance since Christ, the only Redeemer, founded only one Church for the salvation of the world. If one is saved, he is saved through Christ and His Church, though he may not be aware of it prior to his death.

Likos

[thessalonian]

Was he saying I said she couldn't be baptized? (I have him on ignore) Man this guy has a reading comprehension problem. I never said she couldn't be baptized. As you said, the issue was the Eucharist.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1247191' date='Apr 17 2007, 04:05 PM']Was he saying I said she couldn't be baptized? (I have him on ignore) Man this guy has a reading comprehension problem. I never said she couldn't be baptized. As you said, the issue was the Eucharist.[/quote]Dude,
Unbunch your panties, you weren't mentioned or even thought of.