Is All That God Left Us Was A Book?

[thessalonian]

I was thinking about this today a bit and am curious about the answer. Is all that was passed on from the Apostles and Christ a book? Not to undermine that book at all, for I hold it sacred. But less than half of the Apostles wrote anything in it. Is this all they passed on that would be passed on through the generations so that each generation could reextract the truth from it? Reinventing the wheel so to speak?

Just curious.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1243145' date='Apr 14 2007, 05:49 PM']But less than half of the Apostles wrote anything in it.[/quote]

I think it was less than half -- three to be exact. Anybody else have other evidence? Jesus told the Twelve to TEACH. We don't know even how many of them could read and write. None were Scribes. St. Matthew wrote a gospel in Hebrew (ours is in Greek, somebody rewrote it?), St. Peter, and St. John for sure wrote. Paul wasn't one of the Twelve, and he accounts for more than half of the NT. Much of the NT is anonymous. The Church supplied the authors. Luke was not an Apostle, John Mark, a disciple of St. Peter, wrote the remembrances of St. Peter in the Gospel of Mark.

Your point is right on. Jesus didn't leave us a book -- he left us a Church, endowed with the Holy Spirit, as our teacher. And to our teachers, He said: "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me. . ." (Luke 10:16).

To reject His Church is to reject Jesus Christ.

Likos

[N/A Gone]

The church is a living breathing invisable thing that has grown and taken different angles as humanity has progressed. Human flaws move and bend, but in the end we are all equal. Me, thomas, augustine. We are all using a book as the only authortity and inserting our own take on how to relate that authority to the rest of the world.


thats how a protestant would answer. "His Church" and what that is the difference in our communities.

[N/A Gone]

hehe, I send Thes's post to a few protestant friends of mine. (I was tempted to send it to DR JEFFERSON)

[hoosieranna]

Different pastors do different things. I've had some that quoted Augustine as an authority. That for me blew away the "sola scriptura" idea.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Nadezhda' post='1243689' date='Apr 14 2007, 11:07 PM']Different pastors do different things. I've had some that quoted Augustine as an authority. That for me blew away the "sola scriptura" idea.[/quote]
"sola scriptura" just doesn't work ... it exists only in theory, and never in practice

People will say they see the Bible as the ultimate authority, but every Protestant looks somewhere else for interpretation and application, because the Bible is not exhaustive. Either they look to a pastor as being co-authoritative, or to themselves, or a mix of both. Sola scriptura in pure form does not exist.

[hoosieranna]

Absolutely true.

[desertwoman]

Acts 8:30-31
30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.
31 "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

[dairygirl4u2c]

it seems like catholics like to get off saying there's no way to rely solely on the bible and so conclude they are right and protestants are wrong. but, most protestants are reasonable enough to say that you also have to rely on reason and guidance by the holy spirit to interpret the bible and to figure out things not in the bible. a lot of new christians or newly renewed ones eventually realize that.
give your opponent the benefit when there's better arguments they could have.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1244185' date='Apr 15 2007, 08:17 AM']it seems like catholics like to get off saying there's no way to rely solely on the bible and so conclude they are right and protestants are wrong. but, most protestants are reasonable enough to say that you also have to rely on reason and guidance by the holy spirit to interpret the bible and to figure out things not in the bible. a lot of new christians or newly renewed ones eventually realize that.
give your opponent the benefit when there's better arguments they could have.[/quote]
If the Holy Spirit is guiding them, and reason, why are there are so many different conclusions people reach? Does the Spirit contradict himself?

[123]

IMHO, In accordane with The Common Book of Prayer, The Bible is required for salvation. I would say that, maybe this theory is a bit too harsh. We do need Sacred Tradition to fill in the gaps that Scripture kinda leaves. Hilariously, in an attempt to avoid downing Scripture the Protestant would reverse my claim and say that, rather, the Bible fills in the gaps that Sacred Tradition leaves behind...Same meaning...I would say have to answer yes...and no.

Yes, to the fact that the Bible is our handbook to live life as a Seeker of Truth.
But, just like all handbooks, such as the Boy Scout Manual, we don't have to follow every page, we go beyond what those pages tell us via t/Tradition. Plus, Christ sent us his spirit so that we may learn more than just what the Synoptics tell us, hence the fabrication of the glorious Magisterium.

[Budge]

So what do you all have for a foundation then?

God promised to preserve his word and this very post is a negation of that.

Any Tom, Johnsonville brat or Harry can make up whatever they want, and you folks have nothing to check it by.

[desertwoman]

God just didn't leave us the Bible. He also sent another, the Holy Spirit... the Comforter.

I think the biggie is this. If the Holy Spirit can guide the Magistrum, why can't the Holy Spirit guide little Jack Horner while reading and interpreting the scriptures?

If Jack is also a part of the royal priesthood, then why can't he, someone who is a part of the priesthood and guided by the Holy Spirit, can't interpret the scriptures?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1244212' date='Apr 15 2007, 09:30 AM']So what do you all have for a foundation then?[/quote]

"The Church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." -1 Corinthians 9:27

[quote]God promised to preserve his word and this very post is a negation of that.[/quote]"I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." -Matthew 16:18

God promised to preserve His Church. Your thinking that only the Scriptures, and not the Church, are authoritative...that is a negation of the verse above.

[quote]Any Tom, Johnsonville brat or Harry can make up whatever they want, and you folks have nothing to check it by.[/quote]

So first you accuse the Magisterium of oppressing every Tom, Johnsonville brat, and Harry by setting a standard of the doctrines of the faith, then you accuse us of not having anything by which to check Tom's, Johnsonville brat's, and Harry's ideas?

God bless,

Micah

[dairygirl4u2c]

also, i think it'd do both sides good to acknowledge what they are saying. catholics often have to resort to "well, i give preference to the idea that we need a church to guide" just as prots resort to saying they don't think it's that way. both sides have hard evidence for their beliefs, so when it's all said and done, it really comes down to preference. it'd do all good to realize that.