Something To Think About...

[Budge]

Co 10:12

For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: [b]but they measuring themselves by themselves, [/b]and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

ANY church that teaches its leader is INFALLIBLE, has lost the plot.

what is interesting is that for those who claim infaillibility for themselves they ARE MEASURING THEMSELVES BY THEMSELVES.



891 [b]"The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, [/b]when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. . . .[b] The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium[/b]," above all in an Ecumenical Council. When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed," and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith." This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1241296' date='Apr 13 2007, 05:59 AM']Co 10:12

For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: [b]but they measuring themselves by themselves, [/b]and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

ANY church that teaches its leader is INFALLIBLE, has lost the plot.

what is interesting is that for those who claim infaillibility for themselves they ARE MEASURING THEMSELVES BY THEMSELVES.
891 [b]"The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, [/b]when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. . . .[b] The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium[/b]," above all in an Ecumenical Council. When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed," and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith." This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.[/quote]

The pope doesn't measure the infallibility of himself. The First Vatican Council (not a pope) said the office was infallible.

St. Paul says nothing about when a Council of the Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, declares that the authority of the pope includes infallibility. What he says is only against those who determine their own moral or spiritual standing by comparing themselves to others.

God bless,

Micah

[Budge]

[quote]he pope doesn't measure the infallibility of himself. The First Vatican Council (not a pope) said the office was infallible.[/quote]

Hey I was talking about the Magisterium here too, a council is part of the Magisterium is it not?

All men claiming power for THEMSELVES, with no accountability, measuring themselves by themselves.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Budge' post='1241296' date='Apr 13 2007, 05:59 AM']Co 10:12

For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: [b]but they measuring themselves by themselves, [/b]and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

ANY church that teaches its leader is INFALLIBLE, has lost the plot.

what is interesting is that for those who claim infaillibility for themselves they ARE MEASURING THEMSELVES BY THEMSELVES.
891 [b]"The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, [/b]when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. . . .[b] The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium[/b]," above all in an Ecumenical Council. When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed," and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith." This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.[/quote]

Jn. 17:14-23

[i]14
I gave them your word, and the world hated them, because they do not belong to the world any more than I belong to the world.
15
I do not ask that you take them out of the world but that you keep them from the evil one.
16
They do not belong to the world any more than I belong to the world.
17
Consecrate them in the truth. Your word is truth.
18
As you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world.
19
And I consecrate myself for them, so that they also may be consecrated in truth.
20
"I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,
21
so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.
22
And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one,
23
I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.[/i]

Jesus gave His Apostles preaching and teaching authority. Deal with it.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1241296' date='Apr 13 2007, 07:59 AM']Co 10:12

For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: [b]but they measuring themselves by themselves, [/b]and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

ANY church that teaches its leader is INFALLIBLE, has lost the plot.

what is interesting is that for those who claim infaillibility for themselves they ARE MEASURING THEMSELVES BY THEMSELVES.
891 [b]"The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, [/b]when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. . . .[b] The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium[/b]," above all in an Ecumenical Council. When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed," and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith." This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.[/quote]
But Budge you have claimed infallibility again and again and again. You claim to teach catholicism to catholics, wicca to wiccans, you have corrected the Baptists, the Lutherans, the Methodists, and every other group that doesn't meet your own magisterial standard of you and your little personal bible.

Maybe for a change you should deal with the beam in your own eye. Try applying the standards you apply to everyone else to YOURSELF for a while.

THe only thing you have ever done at Phatmass is prove that the Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Apostolic and Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ 2000 some years ago. Thank you

[Budge]

[quote]Jesus gave His Apostles preaching and teaching authority. Deal with it.[/quote]

Sure but your leaders ARE NOT apostles.

They only CLAIM to be.

[Starets]

[quote name='Budge' post='1241445' date='Apr 13 2007, 01:01 PM']Sure but your leaders ARE NOT apostles.

They only CLAIM to be.[/quote]

They are, however, the successors of the Apostles. It's called "Apostolic Succession" and its perfectly Biblical.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Budge' post='1241445' date='Apr 13 2007, 11:01 AM']Sure but your leaders ARE NOT apostles.

They only CLAIM to be.[/quote]

Every man / woman for him / her self then? How can there even [i]be[/i] a Church if there is no one with preaching and teaching authority subsequent to the "original" Apostles? Your view reminds me of the US Army advertising campaign, an "Army of One." In your case, it's a "Church of One." Without an authoritative preaching and teaching authority, it's anyone's best guess, and your opinion is as good as mine or David Koresh's.

[Groo the Wanderer]

We forget again the four Marks of Budgianity: Contrived, Obstinate, Strawman, and Contradictory.

[prose]

I wonder if Budge is secretly Dust trying to keep our apologetics up.

[ttomm46]

actually 5 marks..Trollish Behavior is number 5.
Budge:2027 anti Catholic posts and counting.

Edited April 13, 2007 by ttomm46

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='prose' post='1241531' date='Apr 13 2007, 12:28 PM']I wonder if Budge is secretly Dust trying to keep our apologetics up. [/quote]

No, can't be. Dust would know proper debate etiquette.

(Can't wait till the Budge vs. Raphael debate continues)

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1241296' date='Apr 13 2007, 07:59 AM']ANY church that teaches its leader is INFALLIBLE, has lost the plot.[/quote]Any church that says, "we might be right...or we might be wrong" isn't worth being a part of. In any event, my Church's leader is Our Lord, Jesus Christ, who said (infallibly, I might add), "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

Did Jesus "lose the plot" when He said this? At this point, were the Apostles wrong to continue following Him? Maybe Budgianity is still influenced by UUism's relativism which can't accept absolute Truth.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1241658' date='Apr 13 2007, 01:14 PM'](Can't wait till the Budge vs. Raphael debate continues)[/quote]
I don't think it will.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1241490' date='Apr 13 2007, 10:43 AM']We forget again the four Marks of Budgianity: Contrived, Obstinate, Strawman, and Contradictory.
[/quote]
You forgot the most important thing: one is required to live the [i]virtue of illiteracy[/i] in order to embrace Budgianity.