I Hate These Kinds Of Threads...

[Aloysius]

you would have to intend to break the fast (what I was saying about malicious intent) to really mortally sin against the precept of the Church.

from his first post, it seems quite clear to me that he was consciously stretching the limits to satisfy his appetite. not wasting food is a flimsy excuse... he ordered the pizza then he toasted the waffles... I donno lol... just seems like two meals.

it wasn't a direct and consciously intended break of the fast, which is why it's not mortally sinful. but it sounds quite clear to me he was giving into his appetite when he felt he shouldn't be; so it doesn't sound like the act of someone who is fasting to me. not that the rest of the day he didn't observe a good fast, just that in that one instance he venially lapsed.

of course, the accusation of fundamentalism reminds me of when I was advising a friend of mine about missing Sunday mass. they were saying that sometimes they have to miss mass on Sunday for some reason, so they just go Monday instead. I was trying to explain ya know, if you miss mass on Sunday through no fault of your own don't consider going to mass sometime during the week as a "replacement"... you go to masses during the week just to go to that specific day's mass and not to catch up on your Sundays. haha I was accused of being too "fundamentalist" by insisting Sunday obligations could only be met on Sundays. the things people think are "fundamentalist" anymore

anyway, ask this question: if he were in that situation again would you advise him to toast the waffles or not to toast the waffles in order to keep a good efficacious fast? he would certainly be observing the fast much more efficaciously if he were to not toast the waffles and wait the hour or so for his pizza. what happened was a cave-in to his appetite and all the thought about snacks and such were just legalistic justifications, in my humble opinion.

[Templari]

I would say it was a sin, likely venial... basically if you have to ask that question it likely is, you should have followed your concience and not done it (im not saying that in a concience trumps teaching way, but in the valid you still ought to obey your concience unless you know it is wrong)

[Resurrexi]

Ask your priest. Oh, and btw, Christ told us to obey our pastors, which is following the letter of the Law:

[quote][b]The Catechism of Pope St. Pius X:[/b]
1 Q. Besides the Commandments of God what else must we observe?
A. Besides the Commandments of God we must also observe the Precepts of the Church.

2 Q. Are we obliged to obey the Church?
A. Undoubtedly we are obliged to obey the Church, because Jesus Christ Himself commands us to do so, and because the Precepts of the Church help us to observe the Commandments of God.

3 Q. When does the obligation to observe the Precepts of the Church begin to bind?
A. As a rule the obligation to observe the Precepts of the Church begins to bind us as soon as we come to the age of reason.

4 Q. Is it a sin to transgress a Precept of the Church?
A. Knowingly to transgress a Precept of the Church in grave matter is a mortal sin.

5 Q. Who can dispense from a Precept of the Church?
A. Only the Pope, or one who has received from him the power to do so, can dispense from a Precept of the Church.

6 Q. Name the Precepts of the Church.
A. The Precepts of the Church are: 1. To hear Mass on all Sundays and on Holydays of obligation. 2. To fast during Lent, on Ember Days and appointed Vigils, and not to eat meat on forbidden days. 3. To confess our sins at least once a year, and to receive Holy Communion at Easter each one in his own parish. 4. To contribute to the support of the Church, according to local custom. 5. Not to solemnise marriage at forbidden times, that is, from the first Sunday in Advent until the Epiphany, and from the first day of Lent until Low Sunday.
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/CATECHSM/PIUSXCAT.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/CATECHSM/PIUSXCAT.HTM[/url][/quote]

Edited April 10, 2007 by StThomasMore

[Paddington]

Ziggamafu,

Correct me if I'm wrong. When you confess, you don't have to know whether or not it is grave or venial, willful or involuntary. The priest may not be able to clear that up for you in every circumstance anyways.

And keep in mind that priests sometimes say, "if you doubted at the time that it was mortal, then that is the proof that it could not have been mortal."
And that you can abstain from the Eucharist anytime except at Easter. Not that it is recommended, but you can.

Peace,
Paddington