I Hate These Kinds Of Threads...

[Ziggamafu]

On Good Friday I ordered a veggie pizza for my one full meal (lunchtime). I was informed that it would take over an hour to arrive. While waiting, I popped some blueberry eggo waffles into the toaster. I then ate them like dry toast (no syrup or butter). Here's the thing: I ate three of them. With each new waffle that I picked up, I was conscious of stretching the "snack" rule to its limits. I ate nothing else throughout the day, but I felt guilty for (at the very least) violating the spirit of the fast. Also, my conscience seemed to tell me that I had broken the fast because the waffles could not reasonably be called an appetizer to the one meal, nor could they reasonably be called a snack; they seemed much more like another meal. Not heeding my conscience, I took the Eucharist later that day, and on Saturday, and Sunday anyway.

Your opinions? Do you think I broke the fast? Was mortal sin involved here?

Sorry for this stupid thread, but it's been bugging me.

[Moneybags]

I do not know. However, why not go to Confession anyway and clear your soul and conscience?

[Noel's angel]

I'd say venial, but I'm not an expert lol. Again, I'd recommend that if you are in doubt, go to Confession anyway.

[Ziggamafu]

i go to confession once or more times a week, so that's covered. just looking for opinions.

[Noel's angel]

It's one of those difficult ones. You didn't go out and stuff yourself full of food, nor did you completely abstain, so it's a tricky one. If your thought was 'Im absolutely starving and I need something to keep me going until my pizza arrives' then I'd say it wasn't a sin. But if you thought 'well I could wait an hour but I don't really want to, who cares?' then I'd say it would be more serious because you would be deliberately ignoring the importance of fasting.

Edited April 10, 2007 by Noel's angel

[philosophette]

"The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

Your blood sugar level may have been especially low and your body may have forced you into eating. Do not judge yourself so harshly. I am no confessor, but I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[quote]Not heeding my conscience, I took the Eucharist later that day, and on Saturday, and Sunday anyway.[/quote]

I think it might be best if you get a spiritual director. It seems that you may be being tempted by scrupulosity and need a good director who will help you to find an equilibrium. I think that you may come to find your thinking that blueberry ego waffles is mortal sin to be rather amusing in the future. You did what you could with the fast. At the most there [i]may[/i] have been venial sin, but there are so many mitigating factors, why worry about it so much?! It is probably not a good thing for you to be going to confession more than once a week, as you seem to be focusing a little too much on your sins. Sometimes we can do this to the point of it becoming a stumbling block between God and us.

I am speaking from my own experience, so I am sorry if I am not understanding your situation as well as I could, but in any event, please look into a good spiritual director. It seems as though you are very devoted to Our Lord and I would hate to see you become paralyzed by the idea of sin and fall into despair.

Edited April 10, 2007 by philosobrat

[Aloysius]

unless you have a specific medical condition, it takes a lot for your body to actually FORCE you into eating. the spirit of the fast is to resist your urge to eat so I do not see you lessening your culpability for breaking the fast just because what is expected to happen does happen: ie your body tells you to eat.

but really, when it comes to fasting, mere hunger is not a mitigating factor. MEDICAL CONDITIONS are mitigating factors, but HUNGER (ie your blood sugar level causes your body to tell you you should have something to eat) is not one. that's what makes a fast a strengthening experience, teaching you to overcome the desires your body inspires in you, it strengthens you to overcome other sins when you desire them.

it is almost certainly venially sinful, you should have waited the hour or so for the pizza to arrive offering that sacrifice up to the Lord. but there's no grave matter involved, you did not maliciously decide to reject that precept of the Church. it's a clear cut case of venial sin, imperfection... and your pious reception of the Eucharist will forgive it and begin to help you strengthen yourself for the future.

[Mateo el Feo]

If you felt that the waffles weren't part of you lunch meal, why not just count them as another meal? Since you said that you didn't eat for the rest of the day, you've still eaten less than what the fast requires (2 small meals + 1 regular meal).

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Eggos are rather small, correct?

[Aloysius]

3 waffles sounds like more than half a meal to me... and the small meals are supposed to be less than half a meal. haha, in any event, it sounds like a clear breaking of the spirit of the fast; he was giving into hunger when he had already ordered a meal that would come in just about an hour. I'm sure we've all done such things; but they're just clearly not in line with the spirit of fasting.

sure, you could go back and try to classify the waffles as one of the small meals or something, but that's just getting too legalistic. he clearly felt he was breaking the spirit of the fast, that's what matters, the fast became less strengthening because he gave into his appetite instead of waiting an hour for the meal that he ordered.

[N/A Gone]

How is this not fundamentalism? Yes, go to confession if you feel you have sinned. but the heart intention is the key here. If you felt you were sinning then you sinned. If you do not feel guilty then I dont see the sin. I think being consumed with the idea that you sinned could be the actual sin and draws away from the sanctification that the fast brings.

[Ziggamafu]

Obviously, I know that the priest will give me counsel when I go to confession this week (and whether that counsel is correct or not I will be absolved). I make nightly examinations of conscience and on Good Friday I watched [i]The Passion[/i], so I'm pretty sure my contrition was perfect. But that's not the issue. Regardless, I know that this seemed at least venial (breaking the spirit of the fast). But I'm trying to figure out if it was mortal (i.e., I was not fighting any kind of serious hunger or anything and I'm certainly healthy; I just wanted to eat the waffles that I had previously toasted, as a snack and so that they wouldn't go to waste - I hate warming up waffles that were already toasted, yuck). They were three waffles. Some people only eat two waffles for breakfast and that is their "full meal". Granted, I didn't have syrup or butter with them and I was trying to pass them off (for conscience's sake) as a "snack". But like I said: waffle #1, [i]no problem[/i]; waffle #2, [i]thin ice[/i]; waffle #3, eh...[i]should I be doing this?[/i]

[Aloysius]

your reception of the Eucharist cleared away your venial sins; your conscience was rightfully bugging you and you should trust it has been resolved--it's venial because it was not done with malicious intent nor grave matter; but all these "well, could we count it as one of the small meals?" stuff is getting legalistic. you gave in to your hunger, it violated the spirit of the fast, you felt sorry for it. end of story, no mitigating circumstances, just a minor sin with minor matter that you repented of which will help you be stronger in keeping the fast next time.

cut out all the rules-of-thumb for one meal and two smaller meals that do not equal a full meal and what you have is this: resist your appetite on these days in order to strengthen your willpower to resist sin. because the appetite was not resisted here, it was venially sinful against the spirit of the fast.

go through days of fast with resisting your appetite in mind, and then allow yourself one meal and two small meals if you feel it necessary, but only if they do not satisfy your appetite completely. that's the way you should look at it.

how is that remotely fundamentalism?

[Ziggamafu]

The fast of Good Friday is a grave obligation and therefore it is grave matter. I am not aware that malice is required for a sin to be mortal. The question, I suppose, is: did I break the rule, not only spiritually, but "physically"?

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1237975' date='Apr 10 2007, 05:24 PM']cut out all the rules-of-thumb for one meal and two smaller meals that do not equal a full meal and what you have is this: resist your appetite on these days in order to strengthen your willpower to resist sin. because the appetite was not resisted here, it was venially sinful against the spirit of the fast.[/quote]Here is his intent:
[quote]I was not fighting any kind of serious hunger or anything and I'm certainly healthy; I just wanted to eat the waffles that I had previously toasted, as a snack and so that they wouldn't go to waste - I hate warming up waffles that were already toasted, yuck[/quote]Honestly, I hate to waste food, too.

Zig kept the fast in both the letter of the law (i.e. he only ate once in the whole day), and the spirit of the law (i.e. consciously fasting in his heart for Our Lord).