Why Jesus?

[Guest T-Bone]

Because he was the Son of God?

[carrdero]

[color="#000080"]The Original Post did not load so I will include it after T-Bone's reply. If there is something that you would like to add T-Bone feel free. I highlighted the response to your post in red. [/color]
I enjoy researching people’s lives and anyone who comes up as very interesting usually receives my understanding attention. In my generation (as well as the past century), it has come to my awareness that there were many meaningful people. People who provided a historical service for most of their lives, people who may have had an extraordinary gift or purpose that they have shared unselfishly with millions, people who have sacrificed themselves for the greater good while leaving an indelible impression upon humankind. Now, before anyone goes harrying me for examples, let us focus for the moment on the man called Jesus.

We hardly know anything about his early life from the scriptures, with only an emphasis on the last three years of his life which led to his ministry and death. [color="#FF0000"]We cannot even verify the truth of those moments but are forced to take it on faith that these proceedings occurred. [/color]Events that seemed impressive during Jesus’ time look as primitive as the video game PONG compared to the miracles that maturity and technology can perform today (Jesus walking on water has nothing on Pacifc Princess Cruise ships. Jesus feeding the multitudes with fish, well Starkiss now provides individual servings that can feed millions and everyone can take it home in their very own tin can.) So my question is, why are there so many religions in worship and awe to this man? Where is the Church of Disorderly Nuttiness, where we can worship Jerry Lewis? What about the Church of the Cool (where anyone can go to exonerate and interpret the musical compositions of Miles Davis)? Why aren’t there more teaching facilities for the Edgar Cayce Foundation (who seems to have devoted more of his life and had more documented successes in healing than Jesus)? Why not Martin Luther King, Larry Flint, Carl Sagan, Superman? Why Jesus?

Edited April 10, 2007 by carrdero

[Paddington]

carrdero,

I feel that I should tell you that you accidentally included Larry Flint on your list.
Also, it would be good to put Superman on a separate list with fictional role models such as Grape Ape and Hello Kitty.

Paddington

[carrdero]

[quote name='Paddington' post='1237534' date='Apr 10 2007, 05:03 AM']carrdero,

I feel that I should tell you that you accidentally included Larry Flint on your list.
Also, it would be good to put Superman on a separate list with fictional role models such as Grape Ape and Hello Kitty.

Paddington[/quote]
Grape Ape was arrested and charged in the early 80's for steroid abuse and the tabloids have reported that Hello Kitty just had a litter out of wedlock. I would hardly consider these two proper role models for children or adults.

Edited April 10, 2007 by carrdero

[Thy Geekdom Come]

In response to your point on the limited information we have about Jesus, I would say that, just reading the Scriptures (though I think they contain much more than you seem to say), we don't get it all. The hinge of Christian faith and conversion is a personal intimacy with Jesus Christ...it comes through prayer. Christians may be Christian for a number of reasons, but they stay Christian because they have a relationship with a Person, one they cannot see, but they know is there with them.

We also, as Catholics, believe the things the Scriptures say because Christ sent His Church out to evangelize us and testify to the truth of the Scriptures.

God bless,

Micah

[prose]

Why Jesus?

Because God, through the Holy Spirit has led mankind to the truth about him. The fact that their are other great people throughout history, but no one worships them is only FURTHER evidence as to the truth of Christ. Jesus is that "something more" that every other human or thing throughout history is missing.

[carrdero]

Though I think it would be very difficult for anyone to provide evidence that Jesus existed or at least existed in the capacity as explained in the Bible, I do not think this discussion would benefit from that side of the argument. The amazing interest I have is that Jesus’ ministry was so short compared to other people who spent their whole life to their craft, which is why this thread was posted, to try to understand[i] [b]why[/b][/i] people believe. I thank everyone for their answers so far.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1237963' date='Apr 10 2007, 03:04 PM']Though I think it would be very difficult for anyone to provide evidence that Jesus existed or at least existed in the capacity as explained in the Bible, I do not think this discussion would benefit from that side of the argument. The amazing interest I have is that Jesus’ ministry was so short compared to other people who spent their whole life to their craft, which is why this thread was posted, to try to understand[i] [b]why[/b][/i] people believe. I thank everyone for their answers so far.[/quote]
While I agree that we shouldn't get into a tangent, I would like to state what I see: ancient historians and virtually all historians up to the present age acknowledge that Jesus existed. While some may try to claim that there's no proof, that is only after they have rejected the proof: the Church. We know whether people existed by what they leave behind. No one doubts that Homer existed, yet we have only historical accounts, his stories, and a tradition of play-acting all attributed to him. He didn't leave behind a birth certificate or anything like that, which modern historical methods may look for. We know that at some point in time, all these stories popped up and were attributed to Homer. Perhaps we're taking it for granted, but I think that thousands of years of traditional attribution should be taken quite seriously as evidence, especially when it all seems to have started rather rapidly. Likewise, we know that Christianity arose out of a three year ministry of one Jesus of Nazareth. If Christianity had simply been nothing more than a fabrication it would have dissipated (what man would die for a fabrication? Yet the blood of the martyrs testifies to the truth). In light of that, I think it is all the more important that Jesus' ministry was only three years. It shows that He didn't have the time to just make this stuff up or to come up with some elaborate theories about that would stand the test of time. For such a prompt beginning to such a huge movement, it can only be attributed to something rather sudden...not a slow development into a Christian way of thought that later fabricated the concept of an historical man named Jesus, but a quick, sudden, full-force invasion of life-changing truth which can only be the result of something as short as a single, 33-year lifespan. I think the proof of His historical existence lies in the fact that there are nearly 2000 years and well over a billion people who say He was real, despite the lack of any important artifacts testifying to His existence. Only God, living as a man, could accomplish that kind of fame and that kind of ignominy at the same time.

God bless,

Micah

[carrdero]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1237978' date='Apr 10 2007, 04:27 PM']In light of that, I think it is all the more important that Jesus' ministry was only three years. It shows that He didn't have the time to just make this stuff up or to come up with some elaborate theories about that would stand the test of time.[/quote]
I believe this is one of the fascinating things I respect of Jesus too. The time he decided when to begin his ministry.

[Socrates]

The historical evidence for Christ is actually quite strong.
The latest evidence shows that (contrary to "modernist" theory) the four Gospels were actually written well within living memory of Christ. Fragments of first century copies have been found, which is much closer to the source than most existing copies of ancient manuscripts.
And many early Christians, including those who knew Christ and their immediate followers, were willing to lay down their life for their belief that Christ was Lord. It seems unlikely that so many witnesses would be willing to give their lives to perpetuate a hoax!

As for the claim that Jesus did not exist, very few non-Christians, and even anti-Christians, take that seriously. Most concede that a historical Jesus Christ did exist, even if they do not believe in His divinity. A number of non-Christian historians contemporary with Christ, such as the Jewish Josephus, have mentioned him. No one ever denied the very historical existence of Jesus Christ until the late 19th century (and those theories are bogus and unproven).

Edited April 11, 2007 by Socrates

[Resurrexi]

Why Jesus? Because He is the Only-Begotten Son and Word of God, Who being immortal deigned for our salvation to become incarnate of the Holy Mother of God and Ever-Virgin Mary. He was also crucified for us, this Christ, our God, and by death has trampled Death being one of the Holy Trinity, equal to the Father and the Holy Ghost, may he save us.

[Paddington]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1237554' date='Apr 10 2007, 10:43 AM']Grape Ape was arrested and charged in the early 80's for steroid abuse and the tabloids have reported that Hello Kitty just had a litter out of wedlock. I would hardly consider these two proper role models for children or adults.[/quote]

HK is prepubescent. Grape Ape has no criminal record.

[ttomm46]

I would hazard a guess that since Jesus was God incarnate He didn't have to '"practice His Craft.".Edgar Cayce had failures too and I have never read that Jesus had failures..

Edited April 12, 2007 by ttomm46

[carrdero]

[quote name='ttomm46' post='1239298' date='Apr 11 2007, 10:05 PM']I would hazard a guess that since Jesus was God incarnate He didn't have to '"practice His Craft.".Edgar Cayce had failures too and I have never read that Jesus had failures..[/quote]
I would presume that the scribes who translated the books of the Bible and the scholars who finally chose the books that make up the Bible that we know today had no intention to set Jesus up as a failure or to have future generations question or doubt exactly who Jesus was or what the authors wanted him to be.

[b]Example 1.[/b] I have read 3 different books about Edgar Cayce. One book was written by an author with an unbiased view other than to just present a biography with the evidence and research he accumulated of Edgar Cayce’s life. “Author 2” was a skeptic and mostly doted on Cayce’s failed predictions and his unsuccessfull medical diagnosis. “Author 3” was his son who only spoke highly of his father and believed that his father was truly gifted. This example works with any current biographies that one reads on any famous person.

[b]Example 2.[/b] Recently I have read a book on the early history of the Mormon religion. It was very critical and unflattering. In the pursuit of another perspective I asked a few Mormons on another religious site if they could recommend a book on their early history and they mentioned a few publications that their organization publishes. How do you suppose the early Mormon history will read from these publications?

The Bible was not published with the luxury of comparing different points of view, we are at the mercy to accept the agenda that the original authors have promoted and are to take it on faith that scribes have translated the language accurately.

Edited April 12, 2007 by carrdero