Fires Of Hell And Of Purgatory

[N/A Gone]

L_D...great job, I was highly influenced by JP Morelands understanding of hell as a protestant, i still hold to much of that.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1236479' date='Apr 9 2007, 06:00 PM']I have to think that it is both physical (literal) and a spiritual understanding of the word fire. One does not mean the other cannot be true. As has been pointed out, the fact that our bodies will be in hell after the resurrection if we don't go to heaven indicates a literal fire. But certainly this is suffering for those in the spirit before the resurrection and this must be a spiritual fire. Therefore both I think is the best answer. But it's not on the choices so I did not vote.[/quote]
it's a multiple choice poll... one of the cool new pheatures of the new phorum. you can select both.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1237047' date='Apr 9 2007, 10:38 PM']it's a multiple choice poll... one of the cool new pheatures of the new phorum. you can select both.[/quote]


That's nice and I did not know it but I still won't vote, as that would put my vote for both with the vote of those who voted for each separately. Two separate choices (either/or) is not the same as a both/and. I find most things in Catholicism are both/and.

[RezaMikhaeil]

In the East, Orthodox put more emphisis on hell being a state of mind, then an actual physical destination. People can be in hell right here on earth, be so low that burning their actual flesh, wouldn't be no difference.

I'd once heard someone say that: God doesn't send man to hell, man chooses to go... after this life, God gives man over to the desires in his heart, if he hates God then why would God torment him by sending him to heaven? Rather God loves him more then enough to give him what his heart desires.

There are some that even believe that those that are "in hell" are in the presence of God, and that his love is so powerful and immaculate, that those that don't love him, are tormented by his Love, therefore hell isn't nessessarily a physical destination as a spiritual condition.

Reza

[desertwoman]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1238784' date='Apr 11 2007, 01:47 PM']In the East, Orthodox put more emphisis on hell being a state of mind, then an actual physical destination. People can be in hell right here on earth, be so low that burning their actual flesh, wouldn't be no difference.

I'd once heard someone say that: God doesn't send man to hell, man chooses to go... after this life, God gives man over to the desires in his heart, if he hates God then why would God torment him by sending him to heaven? Rather God loves him more then enough to give him what his heart desires.

There are some that even believe that those that are "in hell" are in the presence of God, and that his love is so powerful and immaculate, that those that don't love him, are tormented by his Love, therefore hell isn't nessessarily a physical destination as a spiritual condition.

Reza[/quote]

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1236387' date='Apr 9 2007, 03:59 PM']there is no purgatory after the final judgment

there will be hell, from its lowest levels to limbo (which is merely the edge of hell, the lowest level of punishment, whatever its nature may be is debatable)...[/quote]

Hahaha! Don't you mean highest? And for some reason, the phrase "edge of hell" sounds funny, though I know it's not... limbo is an interesting concept though. It's definitely not dogma...


[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1238784' date='Apr 11 2007, 01:47 PM']In the East, Orthodox put more emphisis on hell being a state of mind, then an actual physical destination. People can be in hell right here on earth, be so low that burning their actual flesh, wouldn't be no difference.

I'd once heard someone say that: God doesn't send man to hell, man chooses to go... after this life, God gives man over to the desires in his heart, if he hates God then why would God torment him by sending him to heaven? Rather God loves him more then enough to give him what his heart desires.

There are some that even believe that those that are "in hell" are in the presence of God, and that his love is so powerful and immaculate, that those that don't love him, are tormented by his Love, therefore hell isn't nessessarily a physical destination as a spiritual condition.

Reza[/quote]

Yes I have heard this concept of hell before and I actually prefer it a bit, though it does not clash with the western view as I see it; the Eastern view 'highlights' some important parts. I am trying to compile the simplest and most effective answer for my mother, who consequently, doesn't 'believe' in hell, though I think the hell she wants to reject is the protestant version of "God will cast you into the FIRE AND BRIMSTONE unless you chose the bible and repent". Anywho, thats my $0.02.

[Hirsap]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1238784' date='Apr 12 2007, 03:47 AM']In the East, Orthodox put more emphisis on hell being a state of mind, then an actual physical destination. People can be in hell right here on earth, be so low that burning their actual flesh, wouldn't be no difference.

I'd once heard someone say that: God doesn't send man to hell, man chooses to go... after this life, God gives man over to the desires in his heart, if he hates God then why would God torment him by sending him to heaven? Rather God loves him more then enough to give him what his heart desires.

There are some that even believe that those that are "in hell" are in the presence of God, and that his love is so powerful and immaculate, that those that don't love him, are tormented by his Love, therefore hell isn't nessessarily a physical destination as a spiritual condition.

Reza[/quote]

I think this aspect or emphasis can be helpful for a more philosophical 'insight' into the question of Hell, and is certainly helpful on the level of justification in face of non-believers and heretics. It certainly helps bring perspective.

However I also believe that to solely concentrate on this aspect can be dangerous. At the popular level, it can serve to corrupt a correct Catholic understanding, in how it can potentially adopt a 'New-Age' characteristic, i.e.: that after death, we can have the capacity to opt for God's love (which may well be accepted amongst such people, e.g: with belief in Reincarnation). Whereas the Catholic teaching is that, after death, if we in the state of sin, our wills are fixed permanently against God's; for having abused God's grace so in our lifetimes, we will be devoid of it for all eternity, and hence unable to truly repent. The aspect of God's Justice, which does not let malice go unpunished, must receive its due emphasis.

Conversely, however, it helps to do away with the charge that Hell turns God into a sadist, for it is really we who bring damnation upon ourselves turning our will away from God's.

Edited April 12, 2007 by Hirsap