Aloysius Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Bruce said in the Hyper's resignation thread: Like ALL families [especially the disfunctional ones like those in the Bible that GOD uses to work HIS will ] they have members that radically disagree, war, fight, love, hate, support, not support God's ultimate design. honest question: then how come you cite bad popes and currupted cardinals/bishops and such throughout the centuries to proove Catholocism wrong? just awondrin... :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 (edited) honest question: then how come you cite bad popes and currupted cardinals/bishops and such throughout the centuries to proove Catholocism wrong? Catholicism IS NOT "Wrong" It is just NOT, "The ONLY truth" It IS NOT God's church. It is PART of God's church. It had at various times carried the entire weight of God's plan, and like errant children, been chastised, cut off, reprimanded, and some might say... Disinherited?? For now... Restoration is possible, unity with siblings is desirable, but it is NOT "infallible" not even on those issues that properly fall under IT'S version of what constitutes infallible. Understand, you have MANY GREAT THINGS, many. You also have many GAPING issues and man made distinctives, that would be better left undone. I'm ONLY voicing MY opinion, but MY opinion basically is held by a VERY LARGE percentage of Christians around the world today. Good Christians, honest seekers, many with a lifetime of study, just like YOU guys, they want to know God's will. CATHOLICM has only ONE problem, ONE. It is NOT doctrine, believe, practice, men, clergy, or laity. The ONE problem the Roman Catholic Church has is PRIDE. And that is where you always go so massively wrong. Pride goeth before the fall, PRIDE BLINDS, pride is .. as so many philosophers think... the ULTIMATE sin, for it leads to the rest, inevitably, subtly, and with devestating results. Pride broke up Christianity, pride is what still does. Pride was the force behind the Towel of Bable, pride is what broke up Israel, pride...pride. AGRH, it should be put under the microscope daily, dissected, and rooted out. Pray on it, I will. Edited January 27, 2004 by Bruce S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 You also have many GAPING issues and man made distinctives, that would be better left undone. I'm ONLY voicing MY opinion, but MY opinion basically is held by a VERY LARGE percentage of Christians around the world today. Good Christians, honest seekers, many with a lifetime of study, just like YOU guys, they want to know God's will. I am somewhat releaved that you do see some truth in Catholicism (despite your ignorance or persistance to hold onto misconceptions)... I don't think the above statement is actually true. (If you're refering to the belief, that a large percentage of Christians believe Catholicism is part of Christ's Church, and not THEE Church) That would be correct if it was in the United States, but globally... is not the case. There are 3x more Catholics on the earth, compared to Protestants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 (edited) That would be correct if it was in the United States, but globally... is not the case. There are 3x more Catholics on the earth, compared to Protestants. And how many Muslisms, Animists, Buddhists, Jews, Mormons, .... WHO CARES!!!!!!!! Get off of IT man, leave your PRIDE in the dust. The mission is to "the Jew first, then to Samaria, then to the ends of the earth" Not to GLOAT. Stop thinking YOU have "it" stop telling the world you are "infallible" ... Pope JPII did ONE thing right, completely right, in my personal fallible opinion. He got off his BUTT and went out into the world, kissed a lot of mud, and humbled himself, if only the rest of the Catholics would pay attention. Christ came for EVERYONE, he left a plan of salvation, HIS CHURCH is those that love Him, love God, and allow the Holy Spirit IN. Your distinctives, your practice, your RULES..... Have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Jesus's message, His plan for us. They HINDER. You are Pharisee's now, consumed with DETAILS, adding, ever more rules, jots/tittles/interpretations....buildings, STRUCTURE AND STOP SIGNS... Edited January 27, 2004 by Bruce S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 And how many Muslisms, Animists, Buddhists, Jews, Mormons, .... WHO CARES!!!!!!!! I'm assuming that you do, mainly because, you list on how most Christians in the US are Protestant, and how a "Very Large percentage" of Christians in the world see Catholicism as just another denomination (which the 2nd statement is wrong). Get off of IT man, leave your PRIDE in the dust. The mission is to "the Jew first, then to Samaria, then to the ends of the earth" Not to GLOAT. Stop thinking YOU have "it" stop telling the world you are "infallible" ... I don't know why you come to this conclusion. Of course, over the internet... text can seem to say one thing, than the actual user's intent. Right now, I'm thinking on what I need to do for school today, and looking at the clock, a little worried. I'm not mad or prideful, but a little annoyed. Pope JPII did ONE thing right, completely right, in my personal fallible opinion. He got off his BUTT and went out into the world, kissed a lot of mud, and humbled himself, if only the rest of the Catholics would pay attention. Christ came for EVERYONE, he left a plan of salvation, HIS CHURCH is those that love Him, love God, and allow the Holy Spirit IN. Yes, Pope JPII is amesome. But you must also understand, just because somebody doesn't travel around the globe, is somehow "lazy". Of course Christ came for everyone, and indeed it is His Church that he left a plan for salvation. But our disagreement is, on what the Church is. Your distinctives, your practice, your RULES..... Have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Jesus's message, His plan for us. They HINDER. You are Pharisee's now. That is what conclusion you have come up with, not mine. Besides, ever since becoming Catholic, my Christian faith has become stronger and more meaningful. Not saying my Protestantism didn't help me, but Catholicism is an improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 That is what conclusion you have come up with, not mine. Besides, ever since becoming Catholic, my Christian faith has become stronger and more meaningful. Not saying my Protestantism didn't help me, but Catholicism is an improvement Reverse that for me. Hey, we are both seeking. See, having a little injection of other denominations really DOES improve the mix, however that is achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djc0889 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I am proud of my religion and what it has gone through and dealed with. I don't believe anyone who tells me they are not proud of their own religion (unless of course they are converting to another) Your distinctives, your practice, your RULES..... Have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Jesus's message, His plan for us. They HINDER. You are Pharisee's now. I've discussed this in my parishes CCD classes and such...the reason for all the detailed beliefs, rules, and doctirines is so that the people will follow them more closely if they know what they have to do...it's like the U.S. laws...we follow them because we know what they are...they are made by the representatives, and legislatours that we vote on to put in office and they make laws...our laws, rules, and doctrines are made by Priests, Bishops, and Popes that have been appointed by God, and Jesus "The times are never so bad that a good man cannot live in them" St Thomas Moore 2 Thes. 2:15 "Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, by an oral statement or by a letter of ours." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I've discussed this in my parishes CCD classes and such...the reason for all the detailed beliefs, rules, and doctirines is so that the people will follow them more closely if they know what they have to do...it's like the U.S. laws...we follow them because we know what they are...they are made by the representatives, and legislatours that we vote on to put in office and they make laws...our laws, rules, and doctrines are made by Priests, Bishops, and Popes that have been appointed by God, and Jesus I use everything, INCLUDING Catholic thought, wisdom is found wherever God fearing men seek. No one has it right, nor ever will. That is why Jesus has to come back someday, to consolidate and gather. Read the book. Love ya all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djc0889 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 No one has it right, nor ever will. That is why Jesus has to come back someday, to consolidate and gather. Read the book. No one may have it completely right but the one that has it the closest is Catholic...maybe you need to read the bible also... One Church Matthew 16:18-19 John 1:42 2 Thessolonians 2:15 Eucharist John 6:51-69 Acts 2:42 1 Corinthians 11:23-29 Confession John 20:21-23 2 Corinthians 5:18 Matthew 9:9 18:18 I use these when other people ask about our faith and in our bible study and CCD classes...notice everything is from the bible...not from the Catechism...don't get me wrong I use the Catechism sometimes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 One Church Matthew 16:18-19 John 1:42 2 Thessolonians 2:15 Agreed. One church. Not ONE group being right. The ONE CHURCH is NOT the Catholic Church, despite your assertations. Sorry, all those people in pews every sunday are NOT pagans, even if Father XXX isn't up there, but Reverend XXX is. Eucharist John 6:51-69 Acts 2:42 1 Corinthians 11:23-29 Same thing here too. You just have some fancy words that YOU believe do things that others don't. If a Minister did "Mass" used the same words, it isn't TRUE, so the AGENT is the MAN, not the ACT, nor the REENACTMENT, it is just Job Security for your clergy, not a bad ploy either, keeps those guys IN for life, no matter what, whoever invented this one is right up there with Cardinal Newman in my book, guys who allow for confusion to look logical and correct. LOVE THEM really, I want a lesson on how to do that in my life, I can learn. Now what can I DO that will make ME more than a man, indispensible, and people will support my lifestyle no matter how badly I mess things up? Confession John 20:21-23 2 Corinthians 5:18 Matthew 9:9 18:18 We confess, to each other too, by the way, just informally, and not ritualistally with that GUY [notice how they insert themselves at every key step to ensure job security?] being essential. No matter where you turn, how you slice it, you have MEN, standing there between you and God. Didn't St. Paul warn you against that one, you know, when those MEN tried to come in, insert themselves, have everyone beholden to THAT PRIESTHOOD, the very same thing that kept men FROM God, is what I'm talking about. Without those GATEKEEPERS, controlling everything YOU believe is essential to salvation, you can't get to heaven. SEE? Men have usurped God. IMHO here, as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 it's the apostles that were given authority to forgive/retain sins.. that's why it's with 'that guy' and it's the apostles whow ere told to do it in anamnesis of Him... that's why it's that guy and the ONE CHURCH... it's not divided one bit.. so it can't be the big group of disagreeing ppl... the end :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I've discussed this in my parishes CCD classes and such...the reason for all the detailed beliefs, rules, and doctirines is so that the people will follow them more closely if they know what they have to do... Exactly. Pharisitic Judaism reenacted. Same thing, same mentality, same control, same expanding of the role of the overlords... THEY hold the strings, they make the "rules" they have YOU thinking THEY are essential to YOUR salvation. READ Romans, slooooowly. We got OUT of that mindset, some love it however, some for power and security, and MOST humans have this innate need to want to CONTRIBUTE somehow to their salvation. As if Christ's death on the cross isn't good enough. ARGH. Can I teach a CCC class someday? I want the part about GRACE and ATTONEMENT.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 :wacko: BRUCE....... umm... by grace we are saved we all know that by faith we receive Grace. works strengthen faith. faith strengthens works grace strengthens works all of a sudden you see a triangle of grace, faith, and works, they're inseperable... following rules teaches humility, in humility we end up serving more ppl, doing more good works, which strengthens our faith, our faith makes us more open to God's grace. yay. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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