Why Is The Eucharist Needed To Apply The Cross?

[RezaMikhaeil]

This is one of my favorite quotes:

[quote]Cyril of Jerusalem A.D. 315-386 (My Favorite)
Since then He himself declared and said of the Bread, 'this is My body, ' who shall dare to doubt andy longer? and since He himself affirmed and said, 'this is My Blood, ' who shall ever hesitate, saying that it is not His blood? He once in Cana of Falilee turned the water into wine, akin to blood, and is it incredible that He shoud have turned wine into blood? Consider therefor the Bread and WIne not as bare elements, for they are according to the Lord's declaration, the Body and Blood of Christ; for even though sense suggests this to thee, yet faith establish thee. Judge not the matter from the taste, but from faith be fully assured without misgiving, that the Body and Blood of Christ have been vouchsafed to thee.[/quote]

Reza

[Mateo el Feo]

Great quote, Reza.

[curtins]

Budge:

Please reply to any quotes from John: 6....... unless of course you reject that as being made up by some pope? Or for that matter, any quotes from the last supper.....

Simply put, the Eucharist is Christ's sacrifice re-presented, its the same sacrifice because its the same victim- Christ's body is being sacrificed. The manner is different. There is no blood, no cross, nails etc at the mass.

The [i] crucifixion [/i] is done but Christ's [i]sacrifice[/i] of his body and blood lives on in the Eucharist

a happy easter to you.

[curtins]

Budge:

Please reply to any quotes from John: 6....... unless of course you reject that as being made up by some pope? Or for that matter, any quotes from the last supper.....

Simply put, the Eucharist is Christ's sacrifice re-presented, its the same sacrifice because its the same victim- Christ's body is being sacrificed. The manner is different. There is no blood, no cross, nails etc at the mass.

The [i] crucifixion [/i] is done but Christ's [i]sacrifice[/i] of his body and blood lives on in the Eucharist

a happy easter to you.

[Budge]

[quote]The crucifixion is done but Christ's sacrifice of his body and blood lives on in the Eucharist[/quote]

And here I am in total disagreement with you.

I believe this..
[b]
Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].[/b]

The Eucharist as a "representation" or whatnot, is still "another sacrifice" even due to its different qualities--"bloodless sacrifice"

I dont buy the Catholic time-changer stuff.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Budge' post='1236116' date='Apr 9 2007, 11:15 AM']And here I am in total disagreement with you.

I believe this..
[b]
Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].[/b]

The Eucharist as a "representation" or whatnot, is still "another sacrifice" even due to its different qualities--"bloodless sacrifice"

I dont buy the Catholic time-changer stuff.[/quote]
how do you explain John seeing Jesus as a lamb that had been slain in Rev. 5?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1236116' date='Apr 9 2007, 01:15 PM']And here I am in total disagreement with you.

I believe this..
[b]
Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].[/b]

The Eucharist as a "representation" or whatnot, is still "another sacrifice" even due to its different qualities--"bloodless sacrifice"

I dont buy the Catholic time-changer stuff.[/quote]
well of course you don't Budge, I mean 2000 years of people believing it MUST be wrong...you have special insight I am sure.

[Budge]

[quote]I mean 2000 years of people believing it MUST be wrong...you have special insight I am sure.[/quote]

What did Jesus say about the broad and narrow path?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1236151' date='Apr 9 2007, 01:30 PM']What did Jesus say about the broad and narrow path?[/quote]
So 2000 years of Christianity must be wrong, because Budge must be right?????
Just a little rigidity in your thinking, right?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Budge, please answer Terra Firma. I'm very interested in what you think about it.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1236195' date='Apr 9 2007, 12:10 PM']Budge, please answer Terra Firma. I'm very interested in what you think about it.[/quote]
Terra Firma is also very interested in what you think about it.


She also likes referring to herself in the third person.

[ttomm46]

What part of Luke 22: 17to 20 Does the Trolleth one not understand...?

[ttomm46]

In fact my question to "Budge" is: When we celebrate the Eucharist is it the true body and blood of Christ?

I'm waiting for your un informed opinion.

Edited April 10, 2007 by ttomm46

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Budge' post='1236116' date='Apr 9 2007, 10:15 AM']And here I am in total disagreement with you.

I believe this..
[b]
Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].[/b]

The Eucharist as a "representation" or what not, is still "another sacrifice" even due to its different qualities--"bloodless sacrifice/"[/quote]
Your comments simply ignore everything that has been said up to this point. Catholics (both Eastern and Western) believe that the Eucharist is not a "new" sacrifice; instead, it is the mystical [i]anamnesis[/i] of the once for all oblation of Christ offered at Calvary.

The [i]Synodikon of Orthodoxy[/i] professes the following:

[quote]To those who hear the Saviour saying concerning the priestly service of the Divine Mysteries delivered by Him: "Do this in remembrance of Me," but they do not understand "remembrance" correctly, but dare to say that the daily sacrifice offered by those who perform the sacred service of the Divine Mysteries, just as our Saviour, the Master of all, delivered to us, reenacts only symbolically and figuratively the Sacrifice of His own Body and Blood which our Saviour had offered on the Cross as a ransom and redemption of our common human nature; and for this reason, since they introduce the doctrine that this is a different sacrifice from the one originally consummated by the Saviour and refers to it merely symbolically and figuratively, they bring to naught the Mystery of the awesome and divine priestly service whereby we receive the earnest of the future life; therefore, to those who deny what is staunchly proclaimed by our divine Father John Chrysostom who says in many commentaries on the sayings of the Great Paul that the sacrifice is identical, that both are one and the same,

Anathema, Anathema, Anathema. [/quote]Now, as this dogmatic decree indicates, if the Church claimed that the Eucharist was merely a "symbol" then it would be a "different sacrifice," but that is not what the Church teaches; instead, the Church holds that the celebration of the Eucharist, which is done in accordance with Christ's own mandate given at the Last Supper, is the sacrifice of Calvary rendered present under the veil of the sacred signs (i.e., the bread and wine) chosen by Christ the Lord Himself for this very purpose. Thus, it is not a new sacrifice, but is instead one and same oblation with that offered by Christ upon the Cross at Golgotha. In other words, the Last Supper, Calvary, and the Eucharist form a single complexus, i.e., they are one living reality in which Christ's sacrifice is anticipated, made, and remembered until His definitive parousia at the end of time.

[quote name='Budge' post='1236116' date='Apr 9 2007, 10:15 AM']I don't buy the Catholic time-changer stuff.[/quote]
Whether you "buy" the fact that the Eucharist is the [i]anamnesis[/i] of Christ's one oblation is irrelevant. What is relevant is that you have not given any evidence that shows the Catholic doctrine to be in error. In fact, up until the Reformation all Christians believed that the Eucharist was the living memorial of the sacrifice of the Cross; that being said, the burden of proof in matters of doctrine lies with those who support the doctrinal innovations of the 16th century Reformers.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1232160' date='Apr 6 2007, 08:28 AM']Jesus said this is my body, this is my blood. He did not say this symbolizes my body, this symbolizes my blood. He certainly could have. In a previous passage in the Bible, He did not call people back saying He was being symbolic when He said we would have to comsume His Body and Blood. I've heard the brood of vipers argument to try to refute this, hence my special mention of a case when people were chased away by something they obviously then in their own language an culture interpreted as literal. Christ did not disabuse them of the notion.

He then at the Last Supper said the above and then said do this in memory of me. Thus we do what He did and we take Him literally, as did the members of His society.[/quote]

ahem...