Jihad Is A Much Larger Threat Than Nazism

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1224096' date='Mar 31 2007, 11:22 AM']Robert Spenser points out in his book "Inside Islam" that while Jesus promised that the Church would be indestructible and exist until the end of time, He did not promise that Christianity would remain the dominant religion in any particular region or nation. Including the US.

[b]In order to truely understand Islam, I think we shouldn't get an outsiders perspective but an insiders perspective. Being a former Muslim and having alot of Muslim family members, I would have to disagree with Robert Spenser's position greatly and in regards to the church being "the number one religion", that has a slant to it. Egypt is the homeland of Copts, and the Islamic Conquest made it were it wasn't the dominent religion but the gates of hell havn't prevailed and wont. Etheopia is a Christian nation among Muslim nations and those Muslim nations have yet to crack the cookie.[/b]

I agree with this.

Don't think that we could not all be subjected to Shariah. It's happening in France, Spain and in London. Germany may very well be lost already - there are court rooms in Germany that are judging cases based on Shariah Law rather than German law.

[b]Where do you get your information on Germany?[/b][/quote]

[Lounge Daddy]

you jumbled my comments with quotes made by other peoples.
that's no good, pal.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1225555' date='Apr 1 2007, 01:57 AM']you jumbled my comments with quotes made by other peoples.
that's no good, pal.[/quote]

Whatcha takin bout?

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1224979' date='Apr 1 2007, 12:31 AM']I absolutely believe that radical Islam is a much greater threat that the Nazi's were. Not only do they not have boarders but they have greater staying power. They have no fear. What is the worst that happens to them? If they were to die for their cause then they are martyrs and are promised an express pass to heaven.

They are smart. They are using our laws and sensibilities against us. They demand tolerance and yet are themselves intolerant. They are slowly overtaking the West with waves of immigants. All the while we in the West are merrily going through our lives oblivious to the threat.

The radicals are very successful in their campaign of intimidation. How many moderate Muslims are speaking out about what is happening in their community?

Are they a threat? Yes.[/quote]

Heck yes!
God bless ya, MM
Seen Obsession yet?

[Lounge Daddy]

sorry - I mis read your post, RezaLemmyng.

You wrote:
[quote]In order to truely understand Islam, I think we shouldn't get an outsiders perspective but an insiders perspective. Being a former Muslim and having alot of Muslim family members, I would have to disagree with Robert Spenser's position greatly and in regards to the church being "the number one religion"[/quote]

But seeing as you know Robert Spencer's work so well you would know that "Inside Islam" was also written by Daniel Ali ...hardly an outsider, raised a Muslim, and witnessed a family devastated by this current global Jihad. He has lost family to Jihad.
Daniel Ali wrote another book [i]Out of Islam, Free at Last[/i]

And my information on Germany is from the tv news... and a thing called the Internet.
Need a link? You know what a link it, don't you RezaLemmyng?
Try [url="http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,473017,00.html"]HERE [/url]and [url="http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,473017,00.html"]HERE[/url]

Now tell me, RezaLemmyng
Why do you so quickly defend Islamofascists?
Why do you so quickly argue against those who fight Jihadistan?

Edited April 1, 2007 by Lounge Daddy

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1225570' date='Apr 1 2007, 02:25 AM']sorry - I mis read your post, RezaLemmyng.

You wrote:
But seeing as you know Robert Spencer's work so well you would know that "Inside Islam" was also written by Daniel Ali ...hardly an outsider, raised a Muslim, and witnessed a family devastated by this current global Jihad. He has lost family to Jihad.
Daniel Ali wrote another book [i]Out of Islam, Free at Last[/i]

[b]The Problem is that Daniel Ali doesn't have alot of credit to his claims. I wouldn't even remotely refer to his perspective as "inside". However I'd like to quote Mother Theresa, ""There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic."[/b]

And my information on Germany is from the tv news... and a thing called the Internet.
Need a link? You know what a link it, don't you RezaLemmyng?
Try [url="http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,473017,00.html"]HERE [/url]and [url="http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,473017,00.html"]HERE[/url]

[b]What makes you think these "links" are credible? Because they go along with your agenda? It's even more interesting that you'd said that court rooms in Germany were quote "judging cases based on Shariah Law rather than German law" as if that's the norm in Germany, but the links that you gave don't even remotely hint at the idea that you presented, rather said that a particular judge decided to rule upon it. In other words, this was an isolated incident.

Being from a Muslim family thou, and knowing the Quran pretty well, I'm going to say that your "link" isn't very credible. If you'd like to go over the verses in the Quran that, as your article put it, "allow women to be beat", then by all means lets discuss it but its far from the truth.[/b]

Now tell me, RezaLemmyng
Why do you so quickly defend Islamofascists?

[b]I'm not "defending" Islamofascists, what I am defending is the truth about Islam. As a convert to Christianity, and having made the choice to follow the words and living testimony of Jesus Christ, I believe that we should live in Spirit and in Truth. I don't tolerate those that know little to nothing about Islam, spreading propaganda about it, that is far from the truth. There's plenty of elements in the Quran that aren't true, so Christians shouldn't have to fabricate slanders about the Quran but can simply disprove it with that which is true.

This doesn't make me a defender of "Islamofascists" but rather a defender of Muslims, from lies and slander, which every good Christian should do. We don't like those in the Islamic world telling their people false truths about Christianity, so we shouldn't spread false truths about Islam.[/b]

Why do you so quickly argue against those who fight Jihadistan?

[b]It doesn't appear that you're fighting anything but yourself, and youre not helping the situation. I'd ministered to and had success ministering to Muslims for a very long time, and your methods don't bring Muslims closer to Christianity but further from it. Muslims need to witness with their own eyes, Christians living the truth, not slandering a religion because of their own prejudices without even a clear understanding of it.[/b][/quote]

[Mercy me]

mark Steyn has a great column today that speaks to this topic. [url="http://www.suntimes.com/news/steyn/321825,CST-EDT-steyn01.article"]This is the link. [/url] The whole column pertains to the topic but the bottom is few lines really nail it.

[quote]So we live today in a world of one-way sovereignty: American, British and Iraqi forces in Iraq respect the Syrian and Iranian borders; the Syrians and Iranians do not respect the Iraqi border. Patrolling the Shatt al-Arab at a time of war, the Royal Navy operates under rules of engagement designed by distant fainthearts with an eye to the polite fictions of "international law": If you're in a ''warship,'' you can't wage war. If you're in a ''destroyer,'' don't destroy anything. If you're in a "frigate," you're frigging done for.

On Sept. 11, a New York skyscraper was brought down by the Egyptian leader of a German cell of an Afghan terror group led by a Saudi. Islamism is only the first of many globalized ideological viruses that will seep undetected across national frontiers in the years ahead. Meanwhile, we put our faith in meetings of foreign ministers.

"It is better to be making the news than taking it," wrote Winston Churchill in 1898. But his successors have gotten used to taking it, and the men who make the news well understand that.[/quote]

[jeffpugh]

Umm ... just going back to what GodChaser [FullTruth] said about rebuilding the temple... since when has this been happening? I demand links please and thanks.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1226008' date='Apr 1 2007, 05:26 PM']Umm ... just going back to what GodChaser [FullTruth] said about rebuilding the temple... since when has this been happening? I demand links please and thanks.[/quote]
The Temple isn't being built yet, but it will be, eventually.

The anti-Christ declares his power from there, supposedly.

Still, the system of the beast isn't what most people think.

The system of the beast is the difference between two testimonies - that of Deuteronmy 6 and the mark of the beast.

[Lounge Daddy]

RezaLemmyng, you can quote Mother Theresa and talk religious moral equivalency all you want.
I will trust what I see and here in the news.
And what I see is a world threatened by Islamofascism

and I would trust sources like Daniel Pipes and Robert Spencer - who you would call outsiders, and also folks like Daniel Ali (Muslim who converted to Christianity) and to Walid Shoebat (former PLO terrorist) among others

excuse me for trusting these sources over a man who claims to be a Christian (and you may very well be) who is posting at internet web sites as a Muslim apologist.
if you really are as well meaning and peace loving as you say you are - your time would be better spent working to rid the "religion of peace" of its murderous radical elements. Until then the so-called religion of peace will remain a threat, a pestilence, and a curse upon the free world.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1226744' date='Apr 2 2007, 12:21 AM']excuse me for trusting these sources over a man who claims to be a Christian (and you may very well be) who is posting at internet web sites as a Muslim apologist.[/quote]In my limited reading, I certainly haven't gotten the impression that Reza is a Muslim apologist. For example, he was quite ready to acknowledge the suffering of the Coptic community, under the threats of the Muslim majority population in Egypt.

I think he provides a pretty good sanity check, to make sure that our Christian view of Islam is an accurate one. We should focus on the real errors of Islam, and avoid trying to build arguments from distortions of Islam. In the latter, we become guilty of "Jack Chick" apologetics.

In short, I'm glad Reza's here (despite any disagreements we might have) because he provides a fresh and informed viewpoint for Phatmass.

PS: for what it's worth, I'm not a huge fan of the Mother Teresa quote, because of the tendency to interpret indifferentism into her spirituality.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1226775' date='Apr 1 2007, 11:51 PM']In my limited reading, I certainly haven't gotten the impression that Reza is a Muslim apologist. For example, he was quite ready to acknowledge the suffering of the Coptic community, under the threats of the Muslim majority population in Egypt.

I think he provides a pretty good sanity check, to make sure that our Christian view of Islam is an accurate one. We should focus on the real errors of Islam, and avoid trying to build arguments from distortions of Islam. In the latter, we become guilty of "Jack Chick" apologetics.

In short, I'm glad Reza's here (despite any disagreements we might have) because he provides a fresh and informed viewpoint for Phatmass.

PS: for what it's worth, I'm not a huge fan of the Mother Teresa quote, because of the tendency to interpret indifferentism into her spirituality.[/quote]

all right, Mateo
thanks, I'll keep your observations in mind

[RezaMikhaeil]

L.D. Why do you assume that everyone that doesn't tolerate lies about another religion is an advocate for that religion? I believe that Christians should stand for truth in every situation, regardless. Is this not what Jesus would do, is this not what the Saints would do? Christians are supposed to be above having to resort to distortions and lies about another religion, that just leads to an "us against them" attitude. Muslims aren't my enemy, everything that is a false truth is the enemy. Why do you even go as far as questioning and hinting at the idea that I'm less Christian for suggesting that we keep to the truth in every situation?

Mateo el Feo: It's great to have a Maronite Christian here too. Most Catholic forums that I'd participated in, don't have Maronites, so that's very awesome to see here. I was curious if you were from Lebanon?

Given the response of "those" saying that I'm a "Muslim apologist", I'm going to give you some hints at the problems with Islam, from my perspective without distortions to the religion.

1.) Islam began as a "sect" [like Protestantism] of Christianity. Muhammed's uncle was a Bishop in the church, his first wife born and baptised a Christian. Facts that prove this: A: Syriac Orthodox Martyrs are mentioned by name in the Quran. B: The Quran [name] is dirived from a Syriac Orthodox writing called "The Quryana". C: Muslims originally prayed towards Jerusalem. D: Syriac Orthodox Monks were/are known to pray 7 formal prayers, Muslims later changed it to 5. E: Islamic Calligraphy [like that that wraps Mosques and Shrines of Islam] that has no beginning or end [symbolizing God's infinate state] came from Copts [Egyptian Christians

2.) The problems with the Quran: The Quran was originally written as a 3 section script [historical, cultural, prophetic]. After Muhammed kept adding to it and his followers compiled it along with the Hadeeths, those sections became mingled [this would be like mingling the new and old testament of the bible]. Scriptures or "Surahs" [such as Surah 9:5 that talks about "lay and wait for the infidels, then attack"] that were historical [as Surah 9:5 that is referencing an attack that Muslims were facing during their holy month at that moment] were later mingled and so it was difficult for the average reader to decide the difference between something historical and what was to be taken literally right this moment. Most Muslims know that it's not literal but it was historical [which is why most are peaceful] but there are those that twist this scripture for political gain and those that simply are blind to believe it is to be taken literally.

More to come later - Reza

[Lounge Daddy]

that's all fine.
where am I wrong?

You mention me and "everyone that doesn't tolerate lies about another religion is an advocate for that religion?"
Interesting that you speak of Islam and tolerance at the same time.

I have no real quarrel with Buddhists... Jews... or pretty much any other religion
I do have a quarrel with the only religion that is lead by so many people calling for the death of anyone who doesn't agree with it.
This is a religion founded by death, and built upon death. It has a history of nothing but death and slavery.

I don't care who his uncle was, Mohamed was a ruthless military leader who founded a religion.
He murdered people, cursed others, and his most dedicated followers seek to imitate him today.
Today the same as yesterday Islam is a religion of intolerance, and war and I see this in practice as it spreads its tentacles throughout the globe.

Like I said. Your time would be better spent seeking to eliminate the threat that exists within the so-called religion of peace that you seek to defend.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1226922' date='Apr 2 2007, 12:40 AM']that's all fine.
where am I wrong?

[b]I'd already pointed out where you were wrong. You then responded with attacking me as a "Muslim Apolegist" in which Mateo el Feo had defended me.[/b]

You mention me and "everyone that doesn't tolerate lies about another religion is an advocate for that religion?"
Interesting that you speak of Islam and tolerance at the same time.

[b]What are you saying? Because some Muslims partake in spreading false propaganda about Christianity that gives Christians the right to do so with Islam? It thought Jesus Christ had called his people to something greater then stooping to such a level? Because others sin, does that mean that you sin? Christians turn the other cheek, not "an eye for an eye". It's also very important to note that you're over stereotyping a demographic of people in order to fuel an agenda of hate.[/b]

I have no real quarrel with Buddhists... Jews... or pretty much any other religion

[b]Let me get this straight, you have an issue with Muslims because of the few that have persecuted Christians [including Copts, Maronites, etc] but got no problem with Buddists? Buddists were responsible for possibly the greatest revolt against the west, killing everybody that was a Christian in the far-east. The Syriac Orthodox used to have lots of churches in China, had a significant contribution to the Tang Dynasty, then in a massive anti-Christian revolt [because of failed communications with the west], thousands upon thousands [probably millions] of Christians were executed, and you wanna say that you got no problem with Buddists but Muslims are [color="#FF0000"][size=5][b]EVIL[/b][/size][/color]. Seriously you should read some history books, find out more about a particular demographic before you go about hating it and everyone else that doesn't take your stance as their own.[/b]

I do have a quarrel with the only religion that is lead by so many people calling for the death of anyone who doesn't agree with it.
This is a religion founded by death, and built upon death. It has a history of nothing but death and slavery.

[b]It's obvious that you don't understand the religion, that's what gives you that impression of Muslims as a demographic. "A history of death and slavery", apparently you havn't read Christian history. Have you read much about the West African Slave Trade? About the Copts persecuted by the Crusades? Seriously, Christianity has a bloody history following it. Now I'm not going to say that that's what Christianity stands for, Jesus Christ's actions were those that we should follow, not those that have given Christians a bad reputation. You're seriously going to have to attempt to get past your stereotypes, prejudices, etc. if you're genuinely interested in bringing Jesus Christ to Muslims. Being a former Muslim, I'm going to say that it's this type of rhetoric that you're spreading, that kept me from Christianity, it was Christians that genuinely understood Islam and Muslims as a demographic [and their history], and those that presented the truth about Christianity [and its history] lovingly that made Christianity alive to me.[/b]

I don't care who his uncle was, Mohamed was a ruthless military leader who founded a religion.

[b]If you don't know nothing about Muhammed, such as his upbringing, then it's impossible for you to make an informative, truthful, and mature judgement about it's history, it's followers, etc. As I'd mentioned before, it's imparative that you get past your hatred for Muslims.[/b]

He murdered people, cursed others, and his most dedicated followers seek to imitate him today.

[b]You're cursing people to, based upon false truths, yet you accuse Muslims of doing so, that's a bit of a contradiction don't you think? Being raised by Muslims [shiites and sunnis] that lived their religion, I'd have to disagree with you about your stereotype about Muslims. I'm guessing that you probably don't know a single Muslim huh? I'm guessing that you can't quote a single surah from the Quran in the proper context, probably know less about Islam then Muslims know about Roman Catholicism and yet you're judging them? That's gotta be the weirdest combination. Seriously learn about Islam before you go judging a whole demographic and declaring them to be "evil". His Holiness [the current Pope] definately doesn't agree with you and His Holiness Pope John Paul II wouldn't agree with you either. I'm guessing that those two patriarchs would disagree with Islam extensively [that isn't what I'm denying], as I have been, but they would come with actual truths, not just false stereotypes to justify their position.[/b]

Today the same as yesterday Islam is a religion of intolerance, and war and I see this in practice as it spreads its tentacles throughout the globe.

[b]Just as you'd allowed false truths to blind your psychy, just seeing every Muslim as intolerant and seeking war, a vast majority of Muslims see Christianity as such. Does this mean that I believe Christianity is intolerant and having a thirst for war? No because I know the fundementals, the history, the doctrine of Christianity and it doesn't reflect that misconception.[/b]

Like I said. Your time would be better spent seeking to eliminate the threat that exists within the so-called religion of peace that you seek to defend.

[b]... on the contrary, my time is best spent keeping Christians from being perceived as idiots for prejudging a religion, that these individuals know nothing about. The truth is that most Muslims that chose Christianity that I'm in contact with, get discouraged because of individuals that are so ignorant to mispercieve them. If I'm able to "convert" a million Muslims, it does no good if Christians don't do their part by living in truth and knowing the truth about something before judging it/them.[/b] [b]I know alot of Muslims that just see Romans as blood thirsty crusaders, with child molesting tendencies, that desire to drink their blood [in which freaks them out alot, considering most don't understand the Eucharist and see that as canabolism too]. Does that mean that Romans truely are like that? No because if that was the case, I wouldn't be here on this message board but the truth is that the majority of Catholics are great loving people, that Muslims could learn alot from and gain alot from, in which I'd be thrilled to see a Muslim convert to Roman Catholicism. I don't believe that a single soul that ever met His Holiness Pope John Paul II could leave his presence, not loving him as a human being.

Since I'm involving His Holiness Pope John Paul II, let me mention that President Khatami [the former President of Iran] was a very close friend to His Holiness, visited with him often and attended his funeral. At his funderal, President Khatami sat next to the former President of Isreal [probably planned by the Vatican and maybe the Pope himself on purpose] and made friends wth him [the President of Isreal was born in a town in Iran, so they probably had alot of common ground]. President Khatami had made several public statements regarding his friendship with His Holiness Pope John Paul II, in one of them saying that His Holiness Pope John Paul II was a man of "truth, justice and peace", in another statement President Khatami said, "

[i]“Pope John Paul II was a disciple of religious mysticism, philosophic deliberation and thought and artistic and poetic creativity,” Khatami wrote in a message to Vatican Secretary of State Angelo Sodano.

“By emphasising his experience and teachings, (he) earnestly tried to utilise them in the path of the triumph of truth, justice and peace,” said Khatami..

“It is hoped that the leadership of Catholic Christianity, by following the teachings of the Prophet Jesus, may peace be upon him, by interacting with justice seeking and peace loving political-religious leaders and by also following the ethical and humanitarian thinking of John Paul II, help the world towards a better and more just life,”[/i]

Even the radical group Hamas and the Palestinian people said, "are calling on the Pope's successor to keep the same position that opposes the occupation and its crimes against Moslems and Christians in Palestine."[/b][/quote]

Edited April 2, 2007 by RezaLemmyng