Cloistered Nuns: Locked Behind The Grate

[TotusTuusMaria]

[center]J.M.J.[/center]
[quote]While monasteries and cloistered convents are based on false aseticism at least on the individual level on the corporate level they do what seems to be a lot of wealth. I guess all that free labor adds up to something after awhile.
So how "poor" they are up is up to debate. OLAM has the shrine literally covered in GOLD and marble tile. They have these huge buildings, with tiled floors and huge restaurant kitchens even in the middle of nowhere like on that Monastery show. The Abbot had his lavish funiture and they had their Southwest decor.[/quote]

"What seems to you a lot of wealth"

That is what it [b]seems[/b] like [b]to you[/b]. But the truth about their "wealth" does not depend on what you [b]think[/b] is the truth. Right now, you are condemning a group of women who have given their lives over to praise and worship God with their whole hearts, souls, and minds because you [b]think[/b] and it [b]seems[/b] to you that they are wealthy. Not only are you getting all upset over something you do not even know is true (but what you seem to think is just because of what you see [from a biased stand point mind you]) but you also [b]are[/b] false in all your accusations that those particular nuns are just rolling in all kinds of wealth. If you know the financial history of those nuns (which you obviously don't) you would not be making those accusations. They are very poor. Their Monastery was donated to them by five families in New York. The Mother of the community did not want marble floors. She had never even planned on having them. When asked what would she prefer she said a very nice tile that would be simple and affordable and look nice. The five families decided otherwise saying that if they were giving the money to build this church that would be a house of God they were going to build it in the best materials. Mother's community never paid for any of the work or anything. The whole shrine was built by benefactors who volunteered to supply the money to build it. So, there is the truth that you never took the time to look into concerning how the shrine is built. Also (another thing) when the woman came into the room and started to put costly oil all over Jesus' feet the Apostle Judas (always more concerned with money through out the Gospels anyway) asked Jesus why was he not making this woman stop so that they could sale that oil and give it to poor. Jesus said not to stop her because he was God and did he not deserve the best. Her intentions were pure and being God, he deserved it.

My question (besides the fact that these families paid for everything anyway so you have no argument as to those nuns just blowing all kinds of money on costly materials) is why are you upset that money was spent on a house of God? It is HIS house, does he not deserve the best?

Everything the sisters or brothers own is donated to them or they work very hard for the money so as to supply for their everyday needs. The sisters at the shrine your speaking of have no income except what comes to them from donations made to them (not the shrine... all donations to the shrine go to the shrine). Most of the income they have comes from their gift shop where they make most of the things in there. Your claims are being made without knowing anything about what your talking about. You did not look into any of this, and you blamed this sisters for living some kind of rich life when you knew nothing about their financial difficulties or anything.

[b]First you complain they have to forsake everything and that is not fair or Christ's will for those young women. Then when I give you verses, some the very words of Christ that tell us to forsake everything to seek him, you turn on the sisters again and say they have too much and their not living like those verses.[/b] It seems to me, you just want to attack them in anyway you can whether your statements be true or not. You are making claims although you have no background info on what your talking about at all. You are simply trying to make the life these young women lead look wrong, and your trying so desperately. In heaven there are angels that worship God every moment then there are some that are his messengers. We pray in the Lord's Prayer, "Let thou will be done, on earth, as it is in Heaven." If God willed for there to be angels to worship him and praise him every moment in Heaven then why would he want it any differently on earth? He calls some souls to go into the desert and sing praise to him every moment.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[center]J.M.J.[/center]

[quote name='Budge' post='1221621' date='Mar 28 2007, 08:25 PM']Describe INTERIOR SILENCE.

All false religions and meditative philosopies teach people to EMPTY their MINDS, this is NOT what God wants.[/quote]

Once again, proves you do not know what the Catholic Church says. The act of empting your mind is called quietism and it is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN in the Catholic Church. If you looked up quietism and what the Church believes about it you would find what I say true... it is forbidden. It is wrong, and it is condemned. All New Age meditation and contemplation are condemned (and that was the one thing about the show on TLC that I did not particularly like... they talked a lot about how New Age meditation and that of Catholic meditation are so much alike when really they are not at all). New Age meditation is the belief that one can empty themselves of thought and thus rise out of themselves and closer to God. Personally, I do not even think it is possible to empty oneself of thought and it is certianly condemned by the Church.

To meditate, in the right sense, is not to empty your mind, but to simply think about something. An example: "I was meditating on what we are going to do tomorrow". But when Catholics meditate we think upon Christ's life, upon his teachings, upon Heaven, upon the horror of sin, and so on. We just get away from everything that plagues us throughout the day wether it be ipods or tvs or music or people and we just get away and simply think about Jesus. That is not wrong, and I am sure you do it as well. It is simply praying. Now, you can look in the CCC and find this said about in the section on prayer.

I encourage you to ask questions... I do, but I beg you to not ask them in a way that seems as if your not asking but judging and condemning before you even know the truth about the answer. You assume the answer before we can even give it to you, and in most if not all of the circumstance your assumptions as to the answers to your questions have been wrong and not what the Church teaches at all.

God bless you! May God be with you and love you!

In Jesus and Mary,
Marie

[Budge]

You forget I read Mother Angelicas books, the reason she is where she is today, is her skill at obtaining funds from rich benefactors, so your conjecture that their money built that fancy monastery, well, I already knew that.

That is what most monstaries and convents are run on or on multi-million dollar businesses like the fruit cake business of the monks, and Im sure the gift store helps quite a bit at OLAM also.

My point was is that they are NOT poor, corporately, no matter if the money was given to them, only individually but to claim these women are living a vow of poverty while living in what amounts to a lavish mansion, on an estate that would put your average millionaire to shame, is stretching things a bit.

Let me say it this way, I doubt they are worried about paying their rent or the electricity being shut off, or having to eat some ramen noodles for dinner.

I dont see the young women as wrong, I see them as victims of a false system and life that is presented to them. They are young girls who are having their youthful idealism exploited.

When you pray your rosary and say the same thing over and over, it is the EXACT same, you may think you are focusing on GOd, but it is the same, even the New Ager will focus on what THEY THINK is "god" like the white light, in your case, often its the white wafer up on the altar. I see no differences whatsoever and different names for the same things.

[quote]New Age meditation is the belief that one can empty themselves of thought and thus rise out of themselves and closer to God.[/quote]

This is the exact same thing you are telling me, you believe you can FOCUS your mind and become closer to God. Those who mediate do the "imagination" thing too.

Prayer is having an actual conversation with God, studying His Word, not emptying your mind or having fantasties like that one nun that youre there watching the actual crucifixiction, that is why the Bible warns about vain imaginations.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[center]J.M.J.[/center]

[quote]So being POOR in spiritual and material wealth, sure on one level they are, but DEFINITELY NOT on another. In some ways these nuns have it better then most people in the regular workday world, who have to wrory baout keeping the rent paid and such and eating ramen noodles because they are low on grocery money.[/quote]You do not know if those sisters worry about financial matters. You have no idea, and if you did you'd be shocked to learn how very wrong you are. They have to worry about where there money is going to come from, but they give that to God to worry about and there have been many times where he has put in people's hearts to donate to them. The Lord takes care of them, and the stress they have is very much there so your arguments were once again not researched and very poor indeed. And as for what they eat... you have no idea what they eat. So, you have no room to speak about that either.

[quote]I know what real poverty is, and most of those nuns aint living it. Real poverty is when you dont even own a stove to cook on and rent and food are negotiable. As I told you I see the attraction to that life...except for the false religion, and cult aspect and control, having a ready made community, place to live and no worries about bills sounds absolutely cushy.[/quote]

I'm sorry you've experienced financial sorrows in your life, but have you honestly experienced enough to judge (without knowing anything about the people your talking about or their past) what kind of poverty they are living. As I've said, you have no idea and until you actually do research and get some background info on what your claiming (which is all false by the way) I do not see where you have any room to accuse anyone of not living "true poverty".

[quote]Im curious for all the would be nuns here, do you still have to pay the dowry? Or did that go by in years past?[/quote]In the states I do not believe that one must have a dowry... I'm not really sure about other places.

[quote]Jesus stayed celibate because He was GOD.[/quote]

Are we not called to imitate God? And besides, like I already said, St. Paul urged virgins to stay virgins if they could. The Apostles were not God yet they remained celibate.

[quote]Now I know your church thinks everyone whose had sex, even happily married people who have followed all biblical rules regarding sex, are somehow lower down the "holiness" totem pole....but thats not someting I agree with.[/quote]Well, that goes to show that you have no idea what our Church teaches. Before you make anymore accusations that are completely false in all ways I beg you to actually read up on what your talking about. Read the Theology of the Body by Pope John Paul II. Then I encourage you to look at the long list of saints who were married. Sex is beautiful, sacred, and holy. God made it and there is nothing wrong with it when used in the proper context of marriage. Married people are in no way, because they have sex, lower down on the "holiness totem pole".... ah, please... please look up and read things that the Church has actually said before you claim what the Church says. Unless you know what the Catholic Church says on sex (which from this statement proves you do not) please do not say anything or make any judgments.


[quote]If youre were a visitor, you think they were going to tell you their troubles, no theyd put their best face forward.

Actually if I visited a monstery theyd probably throw me out within 2 days for bringing KJV Bibles with me and preaching the true gospel.

The one where you dont have to work and suffer your way there, and its all dependent on Jesus Christ.[/quote]

They would not throw you out for having a KJV Bible nor for anything you say. They would not agree with you, but they certainly not "throw you out". Once again... before posting anymore I encourage you to actually read or experience or do some research on what your talking about. I mean, that comment was just really unneccesary.

Christ worked and suffered and through it resurrected. We are called to imitate him in all ways and by saying that work and suffering are not a means to holiness does not make any sense at all. Christ did not just pray to God and believe in Him and save us all from sin. Along with praying to His Father and believing and acting in obedience to Him, He worked and he suffered and he died for us.


God bless you and love you!

In Jesus and Mary,
Marie

[Birgitta Noel]

There was a great video done on the SMMEs by CBC that may shed some light on how they live Budge. It's worth the watch. They do worry about food, electric, etc.

[url="http://www.sistersofmary.org/article.php?id=274"]Clicl on the blue box on the right side of the page for video....[/url]

And, Marie! Welcome to PM!

Edited March 29, 2007 by The Little Way

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote]
You forget I read Mother Angelicas books, the reason she is where she is today, is her skill at obtaining funds from rich benefactors, so your conjecture that their money built that fancy monastery, well, I already knew that.[/quote]I did not forget. I did not know that you had, and considering the way you were talking as if she bought it all then I assumed you hadn't. You know just as well as anyone else that a single little nun cannot "convince" anyone to give money to anything. Mother Angelica could be as sly as she pleased (which she is not... I'm guessing you have never met her), and still she could not make anyone do anything. God places in other's hearts a desire to give... not Mother Angelica. Giving things away is something that takes away from what you want. People just do not walk around throwing money out the window because they want to "give". It goes against our very ill desire for money and power. To give of oneself, that is one's money, is something Christian and something Jesus called us to do. That shrine has brought many people closer to God, many Masses have been held there, and Adoration is perpetual. Mother Angelica will die not even owning the habit she wears. She will be buried and she will have owned nothing. Just because she lives in a beautiful Church does not mean the Church belongs to her or that anything in it is hers or any of the nuns. It all belongs to God and the people.

[quote]My point was is that they are NOT poor, corporately, no matter if the money was given to them, only individually but to claim these women are living a vow of poverty while living in what amounts to a lavish mansion, on an estate that would put your average millionaire to shame, is stretching things a bit.

Let me say it this way, I doubt they are worried about paying their rent or the electricity being shut off, or having to eat some ramen noodles for dinner.[/quote]

You would be suprised, corporately how much they stuggle to raise funds. And they do not live in a mansion. Their cells have a bed, a crucifix, and possible a table and chair. That is not living lavishly. And not only do they not have anything in their cell, but they also do not own any of it. They do own the chiar, the table, the bed, or even the crucifix. The average millionaire owns everything that is his. He has bought it, he has millions of different luxurious objects that sourround him and bring him false pleasure and self-gratification. These nuns have none of that. They live very simply, and the only thin you ever see is the extern Sanctuary and pictures of their Chapel. And those are places of God. You do not know what they live in, and considering what we all know we know it is by no means luxurious at all. It is very simple and modest.

[quote]I dont see the young women as wrong, I see them as victims of a false system and life that is presented to them. They are young girls who are having their youthful idealism exploited.[/quote]I never said you saw the young women as wrong. I said at first you were angry because the young women forsake everything and you said that was not right. Then you were angry because you said they are very wealthy and not poor at all. I never said you thought the women were wrong. I said your contradicting yourself and need to figure out what argument your going to stick with to try to condemn the way these young women live.

[quote]When you pray your rosary and say the same thing over and over, it is the EXACT same, you may think you are focusing on GOd, but it is the same, even the New Ager will focus on what THEY THINK is "god" like the white light, in your case, often its the white wafer up on the altar. I see no differences whatsoever and different names for the same things.
This is the exact same thing you are telling me, you believe you can FOCUS your mind and become closer to God. Those who mediate do the "imagination" thing too.

Prayer is having an actual conversation with God, studying His Word, not emptying your mind or having fantasties like that one nun that youre there watching the actual crucifixiction, that is why the Bible warns about vain imaginations.[/quote]

Actually I said Catholics are NEVER suppose to empty their minds. Thinking about something and not thinking about something are total opposites. The movie the passion was meditation. Did you go see it? While you were watching the movie did you talk to God? Think about God? Wonder at the pain He must have felt? Well, I'm sorry to be the one to bust your "I do not meditate" bubble, but you meditated. You did! You very much so did. When you think about what you have to do for the day.... your meditating. Your thinking that you have to go to the grocery, what you have to get at the grocery, if you have the money to go the grocery, how much money you have, do you have any cupons. Your meditating.

J.M.J.

May God keep you, bless you, and love you always!

In Jesus and Mary,
Marie

[Winchester]

So people might be abusing their power? Imagine that! In our sinful world, people make mistakes and do evil stuff? Well, I'm going to turn in my pope hat and the keys to Heaven right now!

For shame, for shame!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1222042' date='Mar 29 2007, 09:38 AM']You forget I read Mother Angelicas books, the reason she is where she is today, is her skill at obtaining funds from rich benefactors, so your conjecture that their money built that fancy monastery, well, I already knew that.[/quote]

Let's inform the people...how about the time she got the money for the satellite dish? You know...when she prayed her heart out because the dish was waiting on two flatbed trucks outside and she didn't have the money for them because she'd been trusting in the Lord, and then at the last minute before she had to sent the satellite dish back, a wealthy businessman who had read one of her tracts and reformed his life (he had left his family to live in Jamaica and smoke pot) and wanted to give her the exact amount ($600,000) she needed to get the dish just happened to call? Do you mean to imply that trusting in the Lord is bad or that reforming people's lives so that they turn from sin is bad or that accepting money just in time in order to start a Christian television network is bad?

I didn't think that accepting money to promote evangelization was a bad thing...

As for fundraising in the Church, it seems that money and donations for the needs of individuals in the Church have always been an issue:

"At that time, as the number of disciples continued to grow, the Hellenists complained against the Hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution." -Acts 6:1

"Now in regard to the collection for the holy ones, you also should do as I ordered the churches of Galatia. On the first day of the week each of you should set aside and save whatever one can afford, so that collections will not be going on when I come. And when I arrive, I shall send those whom you have approved with letters of recommendation to take your gracious gift to Jerusalem." -1 Corinthians 16:1-3

[Budge]

I said they were VICTIMS of the system not responsible, how much control do one of those young women have? Most have been fed a fantasty as it were. How many young girls even daydream about being nuns if they have been in Catholic school?


It is not their wealth individually.

Even if rich people wanted to make it fancy for them, theres a point where ostentation comes into it.

Im sorry but GOLD-PLATED WALLS, crosses that line.

[quote]
The Reredos

The 55-foot, [b]24 carat gold-leafed wall[/b] behind the sanctuary is known as the reredos. Hand-carved of rare cedar from Paraguay, the reredos separates the cloistered Divine Office choir from the public side of the Temple and also provides a worthy throne for the Most Blessed Sacrament.[/quote]

[url="http://www.olamshrine.com/olam/shrine_guidecontinued.htm"]http://www.olamshrine.com/olam/shrine_guidecontinued.htm[/url]

You telling me that this money couldnt have been used on something more practical?

nice things are ok, that is what Jesus was saying via the oil, but there is a line that is crossed when youre slapping pure gold on walls.

God doesnt live in a building. God dwells in believers via the Holy Spirit.

I am not attacking the women who sign up for this, on the surface it all looks wonderful.
they join these convents believing this is the way God wants them to live, these places exploit their labors to build up incredible amounts of wealth that is corporate {not individual}. They are victims being led to forsake families, husband and children, and told that God wants this of them when He does not.

Contemplative prayer is the SAME thing as centering prayer. When you talk about focusing on God {not using words] or using conversation in prayer, YOU ARE DOING THE SAME THING as the New Agers who focus on the "White light". Vain imaginations like imagining you are watching the real crucifixiction is how many nuns like the one Mel Gibson based his movie on, is how those fantasties are told as fact.

Interior Silence, meditations, even the Lectio Divina which has a person repeat the same words over and over out of scripture is more based on meditative techniques that put a person in a altered state of consciousness rather then based on biblical prayer which is a conversation with God.

The cloistered nuns especially are led to practice contemplative prayer.

One can find websites of nuns, and monks who have TOTALLY embraced the New age, Rekki, Yoga, Zen, false religions, Labyrinths visiting the ashram, you name it...there is a reason for this.

[url="https://www.contemplativeoutreach.org/OpenHeart/open04-1.htm"]https://www.contemplativeoutreach.org/OpenHeart/open04-1.htm[/url]

Taize by the way helped me lead me out of the Catholic Church. Yes I know technically it was founded by Protestants. I was in a Catholic Bible study that practiced it, the same song lines sung over and over and over and over and over. 5 words repeated 15 times.

I walked out, and refused to participate...Why? Because just coming out of the UU, and having participated in mediation and visualizations, I knew it was WRONG because it exactly MATCHED.

I have studied Catholic mystics, and their teachings match those of the NEW AGE exactly. Remember most UUs are inherently New Agers. I studied the occult, New Age and Theosophy while UU.



[i]They have to worry about where there money is going to come from, but they give that to God to worry about and there have been many times where he has put in people's hearts to donate to them. The Lord takes care of them, and the stress they have is very much there so your arguments were once again not researched and very poor indeed. And as for what they eat... you have no idea what they eat. So, you have no room to speak about that either.[/i]

I guess if things get really bad, they can go peel some of the gold off the wall, and buy some groceries.

Glad they changed the dowry thing, but this was a way that convents and monasteries did obtain wealth. I wonder if today, if a nun is the only surviving heir, if her parents money goes to the convent? One of the reasons for the celibacy rules at least for the priests was to keep money and property within the Catholic Church.


[i]
Well, that goes to show that you have no idea what our Church teaches.[/i]

Religious in the Catholic Church are deemed "more holy" are they not?

[i]
They would not throw you out for having a KJV Bible nor for anything you say. They would not agree with you, but they certainly not "throw you out"[/i]

Yeah they would once I started preaching the gospel of grace and they didnt have to work their way into heaven, the superior would be running to the phone to call me a cab to get me out of there;)

Maybe it would happen once I got the Jack Chick tracts out;) "Why is Mary crying?"
would be a good one for nuns....

[i]Christ did not just pray to God and believe in Him and save us all from sin. Along with praying to His Father and believing and acting in obedience to Him, He worked and he suffered and he died for us.[/i]

See right here we disagree....

Jesus didnt suffer on the cross, so you had to suffer for your own salvation.

Sure people have to suffer for others, the gospel, martyrship, but theres the difference right there. The idea that you have to suffer to earn your way into heaven is wrong.


[i]There was a great video done on the SMMEs by CBC that may shed some light on how they live Budge. It's worth the watch. They do worry about food, electric, etc.

Clicl on the blue box on the right side of the page for video...[/i].

Sure Ill check it out.

[i]
You know just as well as anyone else that a single little nun cannot "convince" anyone to give money to anything[/i]

This one could.

She had the drive and personality and maybe the talking "jesus" Baby statue {shudder} helped too.
[i]
People just do not walk around throwing money out the window because they want to "give". It goes against our very ill desire for money and power. [/i]

If one is born again the view of money is changed. Even ones view of possessions.

Everyone who dies, dies owning nothing, you cant take it with you.
[i]

I never said you saw the young women as wrong. I said at first you were angry because the young women forsake everything and you said that was not right. Then you were angry because you said they are very wealthy and not poor at all. I never said you thought the women were wrong. I said your contradicting yourself and need to figure out what argument your going to stick with to try to condemn the way these young women live[/i]

Havent you gotten the main idea yet, that I see them as being EXPLOITED by a false religious system?
[i]The movie the passion was meditation. Did you go see it?[/i]
No for these reasons...

1. It promoted Catholic theology.

2. It broke the second commandment.

3. It was a movie made for violence's sake.


How often do you stop thinking in words when you do your contemplative prayer on purpose?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Budge, you said that the walls were gold plated. What you quote says gold-leafed. The difference is that gold leaf (which is paper thin) costs significantly less than gold plating.

For $58, you can cover 105 square feet in gold leaf from this company: [url="http://www.goldleafcompany.com/"]http://www.goldleafcompany.com/[/url]

Gold plating is when you take panels of gold and affix it over a surface or use an electrical process to bind gold to another substance. It uses significantly more gold.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Budge' post='1222642' date='Mar 29 2007, 09:54 PM']Contemplative prayer is the SAME thing as centering prayer. When you talk about focusing on God {not using words] or using conversation in prayer, YOU ARE DOING THE SAME THING as the New Agers who focus on the "White light". Vain imaginations like imagining you are watching the real crucifixiction is how many nuns like the one Mel Gibson based his movie on, is how those fantasties are told as fact.

Interior Silence, meditations, even the Lectio Divina which has a person repeat the same words over and over out of scripture is more based on meditative techniques that put a person in a altered state of consciousness rather then based on biblical prayer which is a conversation with God.[/quote]
Why must one use the confines of words to speak to God? Words cannot express the depths of a human soul, so why limit ourselves when talking to God?

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1222759' date='Mar 30 2007, 06:49 AM']Why must one use the confines of words to speak to God? Words cannot express the depths of a human soul, so why limit ourselves when talking to God?[/quote]

[quote] 26In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27and He who searches the hearts knows what (BE)the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. [quote] Romans 8:26-27 (NASB)


I agree with you, MissScripture. Sometimes, words aren't enough to truly express what I'm trying to say to God. Sometimes, words escape me completely when I stand in awe of Him, unable to articulate anything, or when I'm hurting and can't express how much in any way other than to cry to Him. Words are limited, but our prayer doesn't have to be limited by them.

[Starets]

There you go again, Budge. Once again you have demonstrated your refusal to listen and refusal to learn.

First of all, similarity is not identity. Apples and oranges are similar in that they are both fruit, but that is not [i]ipso facto[/i] proof that an apple is identical to an orange in every respect. Do grasp that.

But you can't grasp that, can you? In your overweening pride, Budge, you Know Better(tm), don't you? You are in possession of THE TRVTH(tm) aren't you? Consequently there is no need to listen and maybe even learn, is there? I didn't think so.

Second, repeating a word or phrase more than once is not [i]ipso facto[/i] vain repetition. Have you read Psalm 136 lately? There you have the same 5 words repeated not just 15 times but over two dozen times. Should that psalm be torn out of the Bible? Was the psalmist committing sin when he wrote those lines? If you are correct that saying a word or phrase over and over again is antibiblical? Are you going to walk out of a Bible reading that contains that psalm? After all, it is thew SAME THING(tm) isn't it? If you are going to be consistent, your answers to each of those questions is going to be yes.

[b]SMARTEN UP![/b]

[megrc]

Stop attacking something that you do not fully understad. The idea of a convent is not to hold the women prisoner, any more so than the idea of the priest-hood is to hold the men prisoner. I think that you should do some serious soul searching and also do some research. The cloistered life is ment to be a meditative life-style, these women are not going into the cloister with out knowing what it is. They take time and live in the convent with the nuns before they take their vows.

"According to Sister Costello, the role of contemplatives is often misunderstood by Catholics. "People see they're removed from the world behind walls, and they think these women go there to hide," she told The Tidings. "But the monastery is no place to hide. It's maybe a confrontation with reality that is more stark than in a lot of our lives. They're in the world, but not of the world. I think that's the Gospel challenge for all of us.

"They really take it upon themselves as their very special responsibility to know some of the needs of the world," she said. "So they listen and watch the news on radio and television. They read the newspaper to be aware of what they need to pray for. They've dedicated their lives to being bridge builders to God.""

[url="http://www.the-tidings.com/2005/0527/cloistered.htm"]http://www.the-tidings.com/2005/0527/cloistered.htm[/url]


Take the time and go read this artical that I found on what 3 different cloisters have done to help their diosease.

You really should do some research before you start taking one piece of information and making it your whole basis for an argument.

[RezaMikhaeil]

ouch sounds like fudge is getting in too deep