Thomistic Philosophy Of Psychology 3 Volume Set...

[Aloysius]

Where can I get my hands on these books:

[url="http://sensustraditionis.org/2.html"]http://sensustraditionis.org/2.html[/url] ?

they look like the type of book that will fit in very well in the centerpeice of my personal library.

[Laudate_Dominum]

I believe I've seen them advertised in Latin Mass magazine but as I recall there was no way to purchase them, it was more of a teaser.

According to Fr. Chad Ripperger's website "the texts are currently unavailable and are currently being reprinted."

I suppose you could email Fr. Ripperger at the email address given on that site: [img]http://sensustraditionis.org/images/email.gif[/img].

Btw, if you do find a way to scoop up those texts could you let me know? I've wanted that set of volumes every since I first heard that it was in the works years ago.

[Aloysius]

I wonder what folks think of the Institute for the Psychological Sciences ( [url="http://www.ipsciences.edu/"]http://www.ipsciences.edu/[/url] )... is this institution producing psycologists after the sense of these books?

It seems that Volumes I and II are offered on the FSSP Publications site [url="http://www.fssp.com/main/publications.html"]http://www.fssp.com/main/publications.html[/url]

Just send in this order form I guess:
[url="http://www.fssp.com/main/publications_orders.html"]http://www.fssp.com/main/publications_orders.html[/url]

I don't know about Volume III

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1220663' date='Mar 27 2007, 04:19 PM']I wonder what folks think of the Institute for the Psychological Sciences ( [url="http://www.ipsciences.edu/"]http://www.ipsciences.edu/[/url] )... is this institution producing psycologists after the sense of these books?[/quote]
I've heard of that place and I had a schoolmate who was talking about going there (not sure if it ever happened). The sense I have is that said institute has a completely different character from that of Ripperger's texts.
My impression is that Ripperger's work is intensely focused on Thomistic anthropology/psychology, whereas the institute is essentially contemporary in nature. Not to say that the institute is secular; there is no doubt a Catholic element... Hmm.. I suppose if you've read Fr. Groeschel's psychology books this might give some idea of what I'm trying to say. I imagine that there is an interest in applying contemporary psychology within a Catholic paradigm, but it would not be a strictly Thomistic paradigm--or even noticeably Thomistic per se.
Keep in mind that I don't really know anything for sure but merely have vague impressions.

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1220663' date='Mar 27 2007, 04:19 PM']It seems that Volumes I and II are offered on the FSSP Publications site [url="http://www.fssp.com/main/publications.html"]http://www.fssp.com/main/publications.html[/url]

Just send in this order form I guess:
[url="http://www.fssp.com/main/publications_orders.html"]http://www.fssp.com/main/publications_orders.html[/url]

I don't know about Volume III[/quote]
Aww sweet! Thanks dude.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[Aloysius]

I figured as much. My fiance is a psychology major and I was hoping against hope this particular institution might be a grad school that could be trusted in the formation of her ultimate understanding of psychology; but I'm not sure if it could be. It's probably the best shot though... I've suggested it to her and she is looking into it as a possibility.

Modern psychology is just so icky everywhere. blah.

But alas, this is what I noticed on the website there that caught my eye:
[quote]In addition, given that the program is integrative in nature and spans the disciplines of psychology, philosophy, and theology, it is recommended that applicants also have completed some basic course work in philosophy and theology.
[url="http://www.ipsciences.edu/www/docs/101.12/psyd_admissions.html/quote"]http://www.ipsciences.edu/www/docs/101.12/...ions.html[/url][/quote]

that made me think it might have some degree of noticeable thomistic paradigm like these books.

Also looking promising: [url="http://www.ipsciences.edu/www/docs/2.394/philosophical_psychology_blackfriars.html"]http://www.ipsciences.edu/www/docs/2.394/p...lackfriars.html[/url]

It's affiliated with Regnum Christi

Also this:
[url="http://www.ipsciences.edu/www/docs/2.396/human_nature_project.html"]http://www.ipsciences.edu/www/docs/2.396/h...re_project.html[/url]

I can't tell... it could be just a Catholic tint to modern psychology; but these things indicate to me that it actually might be interested in some sort of more authentically based psychological system like Fr. Ripperger has in mind.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1221881' date='Mar 29 2007, 02:53 AM']I figured as much. My fiance is a psychology major and I was hoping against hope this particular institution might be a grad school that could be trusted in the formation of her ultimate understanding of psychology; but I'm not sure if it could be. It's probably the best shot though... I've suggested it to her and she is looking into it as a possibility.

Modern psychology is just so icky everywhere. blah.

But alas, this is what I noticed on the website there that caught my eye:
that made me think it might have some degree of noticeable thomistic paradigm like these books.[/quote]
I believe that a strictly Thomistic (or even largely Thomistic) applied psychology would be a rare thing to find, particularly in a legitimate academic institution. I will gloss over some of the reasons why I say this.

1. I am only aware of a few serious works that would qualify as applied Thomistic psychology.
2. Academic programs have standards which are conditioned both by the mainstream milieu and secular guidelines for licensure.
3. Thomistic psychology proper is a philosophical description of human nature in many ways divorced from the modern concept of psychology; Thomas was hardly the founder of a school of psychology in the modern sense.

In essence, if Thomistic psychology were to be fashioned into a viable school of psychology in the modern sense its value would ultimately be assessed on pragmatic grounds and according to contemporary criteria. What I mean is that Thomistic psychology would have to either a) afford a model of human nature capable of producing new insights on the level of empirical research/theory; b) provide a fruitful paradigm and methodology in the area of applied psychology.

There has no doubt been a smattering of books available in the English speaking world in the last hundred years or so which would seem to qualify as relatively modern appropriations of Thomistic psychology. I think the more correct way to look at it would be to say that there have been a few limited attempts (that I am aware of) to ground modern counseling and clinical psychology on a Thomistic foundation. The most notable example to my mind would be the works of Conrad Barrs and Anna Turruwe. Other than this I would say the literature is more properly speaking philosophical. You may be interested in Robert Brennan's classic text on the subject for example.

Thomistic psychology is not at the moment a contender in the realm of mainstream psychology and it would be most unusual to find it in any substantial degree at an institution of merit.

I will make a few more scattered points.

I firmly believe that Thomistic psychology has value and relevance which is partly why I am so interested in Ripperger's work. However, I do not believe that unqualified Thomism is the best foundation for a wholly Catholic school of modern psychology.
a. Thomistic psychology has many weaknesses, the most obvious being the limited scope of faculty psychology in general and the weak elucidation of such things as emotion, social dynamics and the biological aspects of man in comparison with modern thought.
b. Our understanding of science, both in terms of scientific fact and the nature of scientific inquiry, has changed dramatically in the last 800 years and it would be unrealistic to suppose that Thomas' system could truly integrate that body of knowledge as it pertains to the nature of man (this is not so much a formal argument as just a point to ponder).
c. There is a vast wealth of extra-Thomistic Catholic thought which ought to be considered in developing a Catholic psychology.

According to my vague notion of what a contemporary Catholic psychology ought to be there are a number of criteria which set it apart from typical secular psychology.
For example, it must be intrinsically consistent with Catholic moral teaching and the Catholic vision of the human person. Following from this it must be rooted in a concept of man as possessing a transcendent dignity and a transcendent end. Perennial categories such as sin and redemption would inform the system.
The psychology would not only describe and account for "normal" psychological function and dysfunction, but would be capable of encountering the supernaturally elevated man, thus having a certain overlap with mystical and ascetical theology.

Rather than a coupling of strict Thomistic anthropology-psychology with modern notions, or a simple recasting of Thomistic psychology according to modern terms and concepts, I'd like to see a broadly Catholic anthropological-psychological paradigm. I'd want to see a lot of Thomas in there for sure, but it would be nice to see a good dose of De Sales, Teresa of Avila, Scheeben, Newman, Chesterton, Edith Stein, Scheler, Von Hildebrand, Pius XII, Grisez, John Paul II, etc., etc..
I cannot help but add that there is a lot of value to be gleaned from Orthodox thought as well in this regard, and I personally would seek insight from a number of Jewish folks such as Frankl, Buber, Levinas, etc.
Building a foundation thus, it would then be time to seriously engage modern psychology proper to develop and ultimately concretize the paradigm as much as possible.

But I'm rambling... Farewell.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Incidentally, I am for the most part an ignorant slob with a demonstrated lack of writing ability (see above) and pretty much zero formal training in any discipline, so whatever I have to say is at best amateur opinion—which is one thing that I have in abundance.

[Aloysius]

I totally agree with all that; which is why I am so intrigued by Fr. Ripperger's books. Look at the chapter headings; I'm pretty sure Aquinas never dealt with hypnosis... and there's stuff about the place of empiricism and such in there. These books look like a brilliant start for a foundation to a true Catholic psychology.

but yeah, you're probably right that this Institute probably just applies modern paradigms with a slight Catholic twist, not at all the comprehensive anthropological psychological system I'd like to see.

But I would like to see some sort of broad system of Catholic psychology like this; and Fr. Ripperger's books could be quite an important part of such a broad system.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1222213' date='Mar 29 2007, 12:44 PM']I totally agree with all that; which is why I am so intrigued by Fr. Ripperger's books. Look at the chapter headings; I'm pretty sure Aquinas never dealt with hypnosis... and there's stuff about the place of empiricism and such in there. These books look like a brilliant start for a foundation to a true Catholic psychology.

but yeah, you're probably right that this Institute probably just applies modern paradigms with a slight Catholic twist, not at all the comprehensive anthropological psychological system I'd like to see.

But I would like to see some sort of broad system of Catholic psychology like this; and Fr. Ripperger's books could be quite an important part of such a broad system.[/quote]
Yes!! I am very intrigued by Ripperger's texts as well; perhaps I didn't stress that enough?




I don't have anything more than a tentative impression of the Institute. Groeschel, May and others on their list of lecturers do inspire me with a certain confidence. Who knows?

I hope that in the not too distant future we will see a richer pool of sweeeet Catholic psychology jazz. I highly doubt that JP2 did not at some moments have this thought in the back of his mind as he articulated his Theology of the Body.

[ExCorde]

I wanted to have the chance to unearth this nearly-3-year-old topic to let you know that I got all of these books a few months ago.

If you lost track of this in the meantime, Fr. Ripperger has since bound the work "Introduction to the Science of Mental Health", into one single volume and it's currently available for order here: [url="http://www.sensustraditionis.org/psychology.html"]http://www.sensustra...psychology.html[/url]

There are also a number of things I'd like to share and discuss about this, including really good news about the Institute for the Psychological Sciences (http://ipsciences.edu/ - it was only 8 years old when you first talked about it!) and other books, but I'm not sure if this would be the right place. Is there a "Catholic Psychology" thread? I'd join one!

Edited February 2, 2011 by ExCorde

[Laudate_Dominum]

Haha, nostalgic. Thanks for bumping this Ex Corde and thanks for the info!

Please, feel free to post here if you want. I'm not aware of an official Catholic Psychology thread.

[ExCorde]

I would ask everyone not to be discouraged by the length and amount of information in this post! It's just that there's indeed a lot to say, thank God! I hope this consolidation is useful to those who come across it and encourage you to join in!

It's good to be able to use this thread because I think your longest post here has plenty of insights as to how "practical" Thomism as a theory (model) can be for modern psychology and the challenges it poses!

Fr. Ripperger's book goes a bit into that. He also details some history about Catholics in psychology and how it broke down in the 40s and 50s, which is why so much of the best bibliography still available is from the 20s-40s, but is now being renewed.

Furthermore, your suggestion of works by luminaries such as Newman, Hildebrand, Chesterton or Stein as well as mystics, phenomenologists, personalists and the positive anthropological vision of John Paul II is very lucid!

I've had this idea that we could bring it all together [i]as holiness-wholeness-healthiness[/i]. For short: san(ct)ity! To be a saint is to be sane, but since this is contradicted by the wisdom of the world which enslaves people, they are inevitably trapped by theories that do not see outside it, including psychological ones. Again, only Christ can set us free.

I also attempt to learn and elaborate on the idea that Catholicism can actually contribute to science and psychological science in particular with very positive outcomes for both; it will make psychology, and clinical psychology/psychotherapy in particular, more effective because it would introduce more truth about the nature of the human person into it. So we're looking at an expressive model for the relationship between faith and science, faith and reason, which includes an integration of philosophy, theology and applied psychology. In fact, there are now *many* books out there about the effectiveness of the integration of spirituality into clinical psychology, plenty of which are edited by the American Psychological Association itself (I have a huge list if you want it, but I have yet to look into those works).

Now that I'm done with my thoughts, best news first:

[b][1][/b] [u]There actually is a Catholic psychotherapy out there already![/u]

It's new (the main book came out nearly 2 years ago), it's american and it offers certification: [url="http://idpsy.com/"][b]Imago Dey Psychotherapy[/b][/url]. «Mental Health is defined by IDP as the ability to [i]perceive, receive, reflect on, and act upon the real[/i]. Reality is itself understood as being, and emanates from the Supreme Being that is God.»

The publisher is Sapientia Press of Ave Maria University and they don't seem to have very good distribution (I can't even access their website at the moment) since I had to import it from the US (there's a few still available on Amazon). Speaking of which, that publisher has other great recent editions, namely on Thomism, here's a good list to peek your curiosity: [url="http://www.morec.com/aquinas/sapientia.htm"]http://www.morec.com...s/sapientia.htm[/url] (the main site is nice too, made by a prof. of Medieval Philosophy).

The author, Dr. Dilsaver claims that this is the "first and only" Catholic psychotherapy, which seems valid to me, as you'll be able to read about on the site. [url="http://www.conradbaars.com/affirmation-therapy.htm"]Affirmation Therapy[/url], and even Viktor Frankl's [url="http://www.viktorfrankl.org/e/logotherapy.html"]Logotherapy/Existential Analysis[/url] for that matter, simply benefit from their openess to spirituality and reasonable compatibility with Church teaching but can't be said to be "fully Catholic." However, the work of Baars in particular is quite beneficial and is even taught by the current theologian of the Papal Household, Fr. Wojciech Giertych, OP, at the Angelicum. He will be writing an introduction to the new edition of [b][i]Psychic Wholeness and Healing[/i][/b], and [url="http://www.conradbaars.com/SueBaarsBio.htm"]Suzanne Baars[/url] (Dr. Conrad's daughter and continuator of his work) has confirmed that [b][i]Born Only Once[/i][/b] is also being revised and will be re-edited soon (both of these works have been unavailable for a while). I should also mention that good Catholic therapists such as Raymond Lloyd Richmond, Ph.D., author of [url="http://www.guidetopsychology.com/"]A Guide to Psychology and its Practice[/url] and [url="http://www.chastitysf.com/"]Chastity - [i]In San Francisco?[/i][/url] have been doing "Catholic psychotherapy" for a while in their private settings, but really, IDP is a model woven from the ground up and entirely worthy of that specific title.

There's an important bibliography in this book, as you may expect. You'd also like to know that he already made use of Fr. Ripperger's compendium and praised it as an extremely important contribution. Perfect!

[b][2] [/b]If you'd like to know more about the [url="http://ipsciences.edu/"][b]Institute for the Psychological Sciences[/b][/url], check their website and for a first look, watch their videos on their [url="http://www.youtube.com/user/IPSciences"]YouTube channel[/url]! Then, you may look for works by Craig Steven Titus, their editor. They have published small volumes with contributions from different authors that have cooperated with IPS, which can give you a clue about the amazing stuff they're doing in there. I'll make a list of what they have up to now just so you get a glimpse at all the subjects and authors (there's a PDF available in these links):

[list][*][i][url="http://cuapress.cua.edu/books/viewbook.cfm?book=TIPH"]Philosophical Psychology: Psychology, Emotions, and Freedom[/url][/i] - Kevin L. Flannery, Benedict Ashley, O.P., Roger Scruton, Ceslas Bernard Bourdin, Aidan Nichols, O.P., and Richard Sorabji. [[url="http://www.amazon.com/dp/0977310361/"]review on Amazon; can also search inside[/url]][/list]
[list][*][i][url="http://cuapress.cua.edu/books/viewbook.cfm?book=TIPP"]The Person and the Polis: Faith and Values within the Secular State[/url][/i] - Hadley Arkes, Romanus Cessario, O.P., Robert P. George, Michael Novak, Daniel N. Robinson, Kenneth L. Schmitz, and Paul C. Vitz. [[url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0977310302/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link"]search inside on Amazon[/url]][/list]
[list][*][i][url="http://cuapress.cua.edu/books/viewbook.cfm?book=TIWF"]On Wings of Faith and Reason: The Christian Difference in Culture and Science[/url][/i] - Jude Dougherty, Kevin L. Flannery, John Haas, Peter Kreeft, Richard John Neuhaus, Edmund Pellegrino, and Robert Sokolowski. [[url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0977310337/ref=sib_dp_ptu#reader-link"]search inside on Amazon[/url]][/list]
[list][*][i][url="http://cuapress.cua.edu/books/viewbook.cfm?book=TICW"]Christianity and the West: Interaction and Impact in Art and Culture[/url][/i] - Guy Bedouelle, O.P., Peter John Cameron, O.P., John Haldane, Stanley Hauerwas, Ralph McInerny, Daniel N. Robinson, and C. William Westfall.[/list]
[list][*][url="http://cuapress.cua.edu/books/viewbook.cfm?book=TIPC"][i]The Psychology of Character and Virtue[/i][/url] - Robert Audi, Fred Miller, John Rist, Daniel Robinson, Richard Swinburne, and Charles Taliaferro.[/list]
You may go to [url="http://cuapress.cua.edu/BOOKS/catalog/series/"]CUA Press' site[/url] and, from the drop-down list, pick "IPS John Henry Cardinal Newman Lectures" and "IPS Monograph Series" to find any future editions. There are some recent reviews on Amazon too. From this monograph series, there's:

[list][*][i][url="http://cuapress.cua.edu/books/viewbook.cfm?book=SCPP"]Person and Psyche[/url][/i] - Kenneth L. Schmitz [[url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/097731037X/ref=sib_dp_ptu#reader-link"]search inside on Amazon[/url]][/list]
[list][*][i][url="http://cuapress.cua.edu/books/viewbook.cfm?book=KEWP"]"Work on Oneself": Wittgenstein's Philosophical Psychology[/url][/i] - Fergus Kerr, O.P. [[url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0977310310/ref=sib_dp_ptu#reader-link"]search inside on Amazon[/url]][/list]
Other titles by Titus (outside IPS, but quite related):
[url="http://cuapress.cua.edu/books/viewbook.cfm?Book=TIRV"]
[/url][list][*][url="http://cuapress.cua.edu/books/viewbook.cfm?Book=TIRV"][i]Resilience and the Virtue of Fortitude: Aquinas in Dialogue with the Psychosocial Sciences[/i][/url] [[url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0813214637/ref=sib_dp_ptu#reader-link"]search inside on Amazon[/url]][/list]
[list][*][url="http://cuapress.cua.edu/books/viewbook.cfm?Book=PIPR"][i]The Pinckaers Reader: Renewing Thomistic Moral Theology[/i][/url] (with John Berkman) [[url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0813213940/ref=sib_dp_ptu#reader-link"]search inside on Amazon[/url]][/list]
[b][3][/b] Also of interest is the [url="http://www.catholicpsychotherapy.com/"][b]Catholic Psychotherapy Association[/b][/url] (CPA). They started out by coming together in order to share and find support for their clinical work with Catholics, but also to live out their vocation in their calling to bring the healing of Christ to people using psychotherapeutic practice as a method. When more small groups were started across the country, they realized there was the necessity to continue and expand this mission and made the association. They have resources online and host a conference every year. Membership is available, go ahead and apply!

I would also recommend subscribing to the newsletter of [url="http://www.catholictherapists.com/"][b]Catholic Therapists[/b][/url], which is also a nationwide organization in the US that provides referrals to faithful Catholic therapists. They have been represented recently on a series of [url="http://www.catholictherapists.com/ewtn-schedule.html"]EWTN's [i]Women of Grace[/i] programs[/url]. Many of these are also members of the CPA, and Suzanne Baars herself has been on this program in the past as well. Click on "View past shows" there and enjoy!

All of this stuff has surfaced in the last few years and it's pretty exciting if you ask me!! Being a psychology undergraduate myself with an interest in pursuing clinical psychology, I can only say this makes me all the more motivated and grateful.

Edited February 3, 2011 by ExCorde

[ExCorde]

Let me add separately where you can find some great articles online that will introduce you to the general idea of "integration" as it applies to the interaction of the Catholic faith and psychology:

[list][*][url="http://www.catholicsocialscientists.org/CSSR/Archival/2008/Brugger%20-%20article.pdf"]Christian Integrative Reasoning: Reflections on the Nature of Integrating Clinical Psychology with Catholic Faith and Philosophy[/url][/list]
[list][*][url="http://www.thefreelibrary.com/_/print/PrintArticle.aspx?id=205270395"]Foundations for a Psychotherapy of Virtue: an Integrated Catholic Perspective[/url][/list]
[list][*][url="http://christianpsych.org/wp_scp/wp-content/uploads/edification-311.pdf"]Edification Journal, 2009, Volume 3, Issue 1: [i]Catholic Psychology[/i][/url] (PDF, several articles)[/list]
So what do you all think about this? It's not something just for people involved with psychology, I think it pertains to all and is quite important for our culture and the needs people are experiencing today.

[ExCorde]

A few interesting updates on the Institute for the Psychological Sciences (IPS).

[b][1] [/b]On the latest newsletter, their description was this:

[list][*][size="2"]The Institute's rigorous curriculum integrates the science of psychology with the Catholic understanding of the person, marriage, and the family. Students are trained to apply this integrated approach along with empirical methods, for comprehensive assessment and therapeutic intervention.[/size][*][size="2"]Doctoral student Fernando Alessandri noted, "At IPS I have found a[b] great combination of philosophy, theology, and psychology[/b]. There is a healthy atmosphere of desiring the latest scientific knowledge regarding neuroscience and pharmacology, and proven techniques for helping people, all balanced by an [b]unwavering commitment to the truth of our humanity as understood by the Catholic Church[/b]."[/size][*][size="2"]Founded in 1999 in Arlington, VA, IPS is a distinctive Catholic graduate school of psychology offering master's and doctoral degrees in clinical psychology, and a master's degree in general psychology.[/size][/list]
[b][2][/b] The [url="http://ipsciences.edu/pages/why-ips/what-makes-us-unique/2010-commencement-address-by-fr.-romanus-cessario-o.p..php"][b]2010 Commencement Address by Romanus Cessario, O.P.[/b][/url] that took place at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, details the activity and scope of IPS as well as some interactions of psychology and Catholicism in American history. [b]An interesting read that goes from quoting Aquinas to saying things like "I realize that even a Woody Allen can dismantle the Freudian myths"[/b]!

[b][3][/b] Fr. Frank Pavone of Priests For Life was on IPS' campus a couple weeks ago, where he spoke in a homily about "[b]the urgent need for well-trained Catholic psychologists[/b]". I find that the support of IPS by such an important and outspoken priest lends great credibility to the Institute's actual faithfulness.

[img]http://ipsciences.edu/media/.gallery/image229.jpg[/img]

Edited February 16, 2011 by ExCorde