Question For Non-catholics

[willguy]

I'm with YOUR position on the End Times.

It is going to happen, that is sure, the WORD said so.

But worry about when, looking for "signs" is FORBIDDEN.

Worry about your own "End Times" ... THAT is most definately predictable.

Someone call the doctor, I'm gonna faint. I actually agree with Bruce on something (I'm just playin with you Bruce).

Now, back to disagreeing with you:

Which one is "Right?" God knows, we never really will. We just do the best we can.

Then how can you be so certain that Catholic are wrong?

We dig in ... everyone, church, theologians, individuals, get out Greek Lexicons, concordance's, commentaries.

And what happens when they all disagree? Isn't our God a God of truth, not of confusion? Doesn't He want us to understand?

[Laudate_Dominum]

Seriously, its a complex subject. One would say that it actually isn't that hard to interpret scripture. It's like figuring out a math problem- there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. When God said "He who confesses his sins...yada yada" he meant just that.

If it was so easy there wouldn't be so much division. In the early church there were heresics who interpreted scripture in different ways then the Tradition and felt it was the correct interpretation. For example "the Father is greater than I", "no one is good but God alone", etc. = Jesus is not God. This is obvious.

But what about "the Father and I are one", and "the Word was God", etc. = Maybe he is one with God because he is the greatest prophet and God dwells in him more than anyone else? Or some thought he was God but not really man, he was merely "in the likeness of men", or as an appearance, etc.. So did God Incarnate die for our sins or did a mere man attone for our sins? What do I mean when I say "Jesus Christ is Lord", etc.. All of these kind of heresies and disputes were resolved by the authority of the Church to definitively teach in Christ's name which was clearly given to the Church by Christ.

The protestant traditions have been spared to some degree from many of the basic heresies because their tradition began with many Catholic elements (a doctrine of the Trinity, a developed Christology, Sunday worship, etc). The reformers didn't start from scratch, they just twisted up Catholic doctrine in some areas. And today protestants don't degree on some pretty important things. What about abortion? Some say it's murder others say it's like getting a tooth pulled, this seems important since if it's murder one is risking damnation. What about homosexuality, some say it's condemned in Scripture, others say it's actually supported if you know how to interpret it properly. What is one to do!

There are endless of examples of this problem, it's silly to deny it since it's recognized by protestants as obvious. It's the basic problem that causes division in good old individualistic protestantism.

And this protestant idea is utterly contrary to Scripture and to historical Christianity to the point where I think it qualifies as absurd.

Edited January 27, 2004 by Laudate_Dominum

[socalscout]

I'm not qualified to answer those questions. :mellow:

You are more than qualified or else you would be an athiest or agnostic. Ever since Luther left the Church there have been quite a few churches, what made you decide to be Baptist? How sure is the path of your salvation if another church with a different doctrine, based solely on Scripture, is just as right as yours?

I'm not critisizing you or anyone else so please do not take it that wasy but we are talking about our salvation and it is a serious decision.

Are'nt there questions that this brings up to make you rethink what you believe? I'm not talking about the belief in Christ but the belief in Christ through your church.

I don't know, Adam it just does not fit into the big picture to me. Does it to you?

Take care.

[Bruce S]

And what happens when they all disagree? Isn't our God a God of truth, not of confusion? Doesn't He want us to understand?

I would most certainly say....NO.

If God wanted us to AGREE, we would agree, would't we?

He wants us to IS-RA-EL with Him.

[Aloysius]

yes, but God is not the author of chaos, that's a biblical doctrine.

therefore, God did not make us all disagree, we made ourselves disagree.

He made it so we can see a visible entity proclaiming His Truth so if we all chose to follow it we would not disagree, He gave us the way to all be one, through the Eucharist, standing on the Peter (rock, Pope, magisterium) strengthened by the foundational Rock of Jesus Christ. :cool:

[Bruce S]

He gave us the way to all be one, through the Eucharist = Catholic denominational distinctive.

standing on the Peter (rock, Pope, magisterium) = Catholic denominational distinctive.

strengthened by the foundational Rock of Jesus Christ. = Universal

[Aloysius]

He gave us the way to all be one, through the Eucharist = Christian Nomination (Universal, Catholic) distinctive.

standing on the Peter (rock, Pope, magisterium) = Christian Nomination (Universal, Catholic) distinctive.

strengthened by the foundational Rock of Jesus Christ. = Universal

yeah... :cool:

[willguy]

If God wanted us to AGREE, we would agree, would't we?

We seemed to be agreeing just fine until the Great Schism (even then it was more of a political agreement). Then Luther came along and ... BAM... we suddenly all become Bible Scholars and whatever we say is good enough for us. I don't care what you choose to believe, freedom did not "ensue shortly there after," chaos did. And we know who the author of Chaos is (here's a hint: It's not God).

He wants us to IS-RA-EL with Him.

first off, there is no proof of this. Jacob fought with Him. That doesn't mean that we are supposed to. Secondly, fighting with Him doesn't mean that we all get to make our own truths. I've fought with God plenty (talk to anyone else who's discerned the priesthood and they'll tell you the same thing). That doesn't mean that I got to do what I wanted. It means that I didn't want to do what God wanted, so He faught with me. I fought back. I lost (thankfully).

[willguy]

Another thought that I thought of after it was too late to edit that --^ post:

If God wanted us to AGREE, we would agree, would't we?

If God wanted us to be perfect, we would be perfect, wouldn't we? See, your logic, though it seems to make perfect sense at first, completely falls apart on further analysis. Because you forgot one thing: Free will. We can say "no."

[CatholicAndFanatical]

Bruce your running out of straws to pull