Jake Huether Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I'm with YOUR position on the End Times. It is going to happen, that is sure, the WORD said so. But worry about when, looking for "signs" is FORBIDDEN. Worry about your own "End Times" ... THAT is most definately predictable. :scratch: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 (edited) There are two people in a room each with a KJV Bible and they read the same verse from Scripture but each has a different interpretation. Which one is right? Jewish thinking cap on here, you really CAN learn from those Rabbi's, even the ones that reject Christ. They think that NO ONE IS RIGHT, EVER. The "Word" is there, but every passage has FOUR levels of understanding, yes FOUR. 1: The obvious one. 2: The linked to other themes one. 3: The allusion that it might make. 4: The truth that is REALLY there. Level four is where you want to go, and all four levels are there, by design, by God to make you THINK, ponder, wonder, research, and debate. God WANTS you to struggle, he wants YOU to get into His word. As you THINK "you understand" you find out MORE questions, then you come to a new understanding, then you find out there is MORE.... Ah, that is something we all could use more of. After all, the very name that GOD gave Jacob after his wresting match at Peniel was IS-Ra-EL. Meaning... "One who struggles/fights/wrestles with God" God loves the struggle, otherwise He would have picked a different name for HIS PEOPLE, all of HIS people. Which one is "Right?" God knows, we never really will. We just do the best we can. Edited January 27, 2004 by Bruce S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Bruce all Scripture has many layers, that is why private interpretation is a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Bruce all Scripture has many layers, that is why private interpretation is a failure. Ah. My point exactly. Where that ultimately lead, and DID LEAD, was in the Catholic Church forbidding individuals from even reading the Bible, THEY WOULD DO IT FOR YOU. Private "interpretation" is just OPINION. Everyone, including YOUR denomination, interprets, it is GOOD, but it is just that, a best guess interpretation, and to prove that, it is VOTED on after massive squabbles. Majority vote wins. Now, tell me that is how God wants things? We VOTE on what he said? Nah... We dig in ... everyone, church, theologians, individuals, get out Greek Lexicons, concordance's, commentaries. THAT is what God wants, total immersion in HIS WORD, and a struggle to comprehend it. It is the STRUGGLE He loves. If you sit on your behind with the CCC giving you every answer, you don't immerse, you submerse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 you contradict yourself... aren't even the uneducated simpletons sposedta be able to understand God's message? the little children? but you say only the Bible Scholars can... well we have a solution that doesn't rely so much on human intellect, we say that the Church, yes through votes or whatever kind of disfunctional family squabble we get into, will always do God's will in interpretting scripture because He protects it. the Church forbade its members from reading ERRONEOUS TRANSLATIONS of the Bible circulating around the time of the reformers... they mighta caught a "faith alone" where ML added the alone... or somethin like that, and been screwed up and schismatic. we wanted our ppl to read the true Holy Bible, and the only way for that was to just go to mass because the printing press was not makin the correct translations. it's amazing that YOU, BRUCE S, after 2000 years of us doin it that way, have finally discovered that God doesn't want us to do it that way, He wants us to get out Greek Lexicons which were never available to the faithful before, He wants us to get all the commentaries of ppl who are also only scholars... yeah, if you call us Pharisees, i'll call you greek, cause you think human knowledge is the best way, the way God wants, for us to interpret His Message to us. yeah... the light of human reason is but a lil flashlight, and it's batteries are the Holy Spirit, and it's recharge center is the Church. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 The one that knows better is right Seriously, its a complex subject. One would say that it actually isn't that hard to interpret scripture. It's like figuring out a math problem- there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. When God said "He who confesses his sins...yada yada" he meant just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 yeah, but then comes in, did He mean it the way an english culture would read it, the way an english language would represent it, the way people with their own agendas in their heads would impose their agenda upon the Scripture? it's very simple, but most humans are unable to comprehend unless they take extensive Biblical courses, and even then they could miss something very easily, we don't know EVERYTHING about that culture, there could be many expressions we never heard before that ppl in that time in that culture would have understood in a second. the only true way to avoid all that mumbo jumbo masking the word of God is for an institution to be guided by the Spirit, for it's prooven that individuals are too currupt to completely let the Spirit guide them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 he meant just that. But that isn't the question. We know that HE meant "that". But the question is, what did "that" mean. You see, while a protestant would look at it and think, "oh, so we simply confess our sins to God", a Catholic would think, "one must confess to someone else". Because the Bible doesn't specifically say to whome we must confess, it just says we must confess. And while to confess automatically intrinsically indicates another human, since God doesn't need your "confession" (he already knows what you've done so you don't need to "confess", repent yes, but confess?), it isn't exactly "clear". See what we mean.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewReformation Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Who says we don't need to confess our sins to God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalscout Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 (edited) The one that knows better is right Seriously, its a complex subject. One would say that it actually isn't that hard to interpret scripture. It's like figuring out a math problem- there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. When God said "He who confesses his sins...yada yada" he meant just that. Then what Church should one go to, Adam? From my understanding Calvanist and Lutherans have slightly different teachings on Sola Fide. Who is right? You are Baptist, what can the Baptist offer me that the Presbyterians can't? Is everyone correct including Jehovas Witnesses? If that is the case then it is just pick the denomination closest to your house or the one with the best Sunday coffee. A salvation smorgasbord where it does not matter what you eat it is all good. One last thing if all the others are correct then guess what...so are we, the Catholics. take care. Edited January 27, 2004 by socalscout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalscout Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 Ah. My point exactly. Where that ultimately lead, and DID LEAD, was in the Catholic Church forbidding individuals from even reading the Bible, THEY WOULD DO IT FOR YOU. Private "interpretation" is just OPINION. Everyone, including YOUR denomination, interprets, it is GOOD, but it is just that, a best guess interpretation, and to prove that, it is VOTED on after massive squabbles. Majority vote wins. Now, tell me that is how God wants things? We VOTE on what he said? Nah... We dig in ... everyone, church, theologians, individuals, get out Greek Lexicons, concordance's, commentaries. THAT is what God wants, total immersion in HIS WORD, and a struggle to comprehend it. It is the STRUGGLE He loves. If you sit on your behind with the CCC giving you every answer, you don't immerse, you submerse. Don't side step the question. There are more than one Christian denomination that started since Luther, based soley on Scripture. Not all of them agree or else ther would be only one other than Catholicism. Which one is the path to salvation? Which teachings on Scripture is the correct one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Then what Church should one go to, Adam? From my understanding Calvanist and Lutherans have slightly different teachings on Sola Fide. Who is right? You are Baptist, what can the Baptist offer me that the Presbyterians can't? Is everyone correct including Jehovas Witnesses? If that is the case then it is just pick the denomination closest to your house or the one with the best Sunday coffee. A salvation smorgasbord where it does not matter what you eat it is all good. One last thing if all the others are correct then guess what...so are we, the Catholics. take care. I'm not qualified to answer those questions. :mellow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 QUOTE (socalscout @ Jan 27 2004, 12:06 PM) Then what Church should one go to, Adam? From my understanding Calvanist and Lutherans have slightly different teachings on Sola Fide. Who is right? You are Baptist, what can the Baptist offer me that the Presbyterians can't? Is everyone correct including Jehovas Witnesses? If that is the case then it is just pick the denomination closest to your house or the one with the best Sunday coffee. A salvation smorgasbord where it does not matter what you eat it is all good. One last thing if all the others are correct then guess what...so are we, the Catholics. take care. I'm not qualified to answer those questions. I would think this is the best answer to the thread question. What Socal wrote above is a prime example. What can a Baptist offer me that a Pentecostal cant. Why is one better than the other? Who is qualified to answer this?? This is the million dollar question. Who is qualified? God's not stupid, he knew this question and answer when He was on earth..This question is a good reason why God would of put an Authority head on Earth to direct us and be Qualified to answer such questions. God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Where that ultimately lead, and DID LEAD, was in the Catholic Church forbidding individuals from even reading the Bible, THEY WOULD DO IT FOR YOU. This is just plain bad interpretation of history. 1. The Church never forbade people from reading the Bible. A statement like this should be backed up with sources. 2. Of course the Church would do it for you, how was a common follower of Christ (the illiteracy rate was much higher back then) suppose to get a Bible? Hand copy it themselves? THAT is what God wants, total immersion in HIS WORD, and a struggle to comprehend it. God wants us to struggle to comprehend his Word? Can you show me where in the Bible that this is emphasised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Where that ultimately lead, and DID LEAD, was in the Catholic Church forbidding individuals from even reading the Bible, THEY WOULD DO IT FOR YOU. Do I happen to remember reading a quote from a Pope during the time of the printing press that told other bishops to discourage the reading of the Bible that was being printed. This was for several reasons: 1. It would encourage privite interpretations 2. the Bible being printed at the time was error filled The Church encourages knowing Scripture, front to back, to be ignorant of Scriptures is to be ignorant of Christ. But the interpretations of the bible you are reading should come in stride with the Church Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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