Thy Geekdom Come Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 [quote name='Anomaly' post='1222204' date='Mar 29 2007, 12:24 PM']Apparently, blind obedience to men isn't a blessing according to the RC Church. The RC Catechism promotes discernment and following your consicience. Blind obedience is ignoring your own consicience and just doing what people tell you to do. [b]1800 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience.[/b][/quote] I had a teacher in seminary who tried to leave these three paragraphs out. They elaborate on what the Church actually teaches. The paragraph you sited is from the "In Brief" section and doesn't go into complete detail. So this is the context. 1783 [b]Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened[/b]. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. [b]The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings[/b]. 1784 [b]The education of the conscience is a lifelong task[/b]. From the earliest years, it awakens the child to the knowledge and practice of the interior law recognized by conscience. Prudent education teaches virtue; it prevents or cures fear, selfishness and pride, resentment arising from guilt, and feelings of complacency, born of human weakness and faults. [b]The education of the conscience guarantees freedom and engenders peace of heart[/b]. 1785 [b]In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path, we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord's Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and [u]guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church[/u][/b]. God bless, Micah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 [quote name='Anomaly' post='1222204' date='Mar 29 2007, 12:24 PM']Apparently, blind obedience to men isn't a blessing according to the RC Church. The RC Catechism promotes discernment and following your consicience. Blind obedience is ignoring your own consicience and just doing what people tell you to do. [b]1800 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience.[/b][/quote] Oh come on. Obedience doesn't mean being a stupid head. The obedience that I alluded to is one of loyalty, piety, arête and honor, not silly blind obedience. Although instances of "blind" obedience may be required at times, these are based on a previous discernment much as an instance of blind trust in a doctor, captain or travel agent is hopefully based on a discernment of their trustworthiness. But you apparently assert things that you know to be false (I have many memories of your past posts) perhaps simply for the sake of being a butthat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo el Feo Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 [quote name='Raphael' post='1222208' date='Mar 29 2007, 02:33 PM']I had a teacher in seminary who tried to leave these three paragraphs out. They elaborate on what the Church actually teaches. The paragraph you sited is from the "In Brief" section and doesn't go into complete detail. So this is the context.[/quote]This practice of quoting the "in brief" text, while ignoring the important details provided by the Catechism is becoming a pattern. Budge did the same thing a day or two ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Sorry to be a burr under y'all's saddles. I was trying to be brief. Let's see what I wrote. "Apparently, blind obedience to men isn't a blessing according to the RC Church. [b]The RC Catechism promotes discernment and following your consicience. [/b]Blind obedience is ignoring your own consicience and just doing what people tell you to do. Hmmm. I guess you missed the part about the Catechism "promtes discernment AND following your conscience". Considering you were responding to Budge's challenge and my favorite point that Catholics need to involve their intellect, I thought I had a nice and appropriate post. narf! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo el Feo Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 [quote name='Anomaly' post='1222227' date='Mar 29 2007, 03:13 PM']Sorry to be a burr under y'all's saddles. I was trying to be brief. Let's see what I wrote. "Apparently, blind obedience to men isn't a blessing according to the RC Church. [b]The RC Catechism promotes discernment and following your consicience. [/b]Blind obedience is ignoring your own consicience and just doing what people tell you to do. Hmmm. I guess you missed the part about the Catechism "promtes discernment AND following your conscience". Considering you were responding to Budge's challenge and my favorite point that Catholics need to involve their intellect, I thought I had a nice and appropriate post. narf![/quote]There's no worry of "burrs under the saddles." I was responding to Budge's insinuation that there is something wrong with blind obedience. We've got two extremes (i.e. totally blind obedience and totally "following your conscience"), and I don't think that the Catholic Faith advocates [i]either[/i] extreme. There are excesses in each. But, Budge lives in her world of black and white; as usual, there's no moderation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 [quote name='Anomaly' post='1222227' date='Mar 29 2007, 01:13 PM']Sorry to be a burr under y'all's saddles. I was trying to be brief. Let's see what I wrote. "Apparently, blind obedience to men isn't a blessing according to the RC Church. [b]The RC Catechism promotes discernment and following your consicience. [/b]Blind obedience is ignoring your own consicience and just doing what people tell you to do. Hmmm. I guess you missed the part about the Catechism "promtes discernment AND following your conscience". Considering you were responding to Budge's challenge and my favorite point that Catholics need to involve their intellect, I thought I had a nice and appropriate post. narf![/quote] Dude, you did have a nice and appropriate post, my "butt" question was intended to clarify if this was your intent or if you were trying to be a "butt" (which is not meant to be a nasty insult like "jerk" but suggests goofiness). wow.. back in '03 I think we could have had this conversation without mods editing mods. haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 [quote name='Anomaly' post='1222227' date='Mar 29 2007, 01:13 PM']Sorry to be a burr under y'all's saddles. I was trying to be brief. Let's see what I wrote. "Apparently, blind obedience to men isn't a blessing according to the RC Church. [b]The RC Catechism promotes discernment and following your consicience. [/b]Blind obedience is ignoring your own consicience and just doing what people tell you to do. Hmmm. I guess you missed the part about the Catechism "promtes discernment AND following your conscience". Considering you were responding to Budge's challenge and my favorite point that Catholics need to involve their intellect, I thought I had a nice and appropriate post. narf![/quote] I just sent you an email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1222264' date='Mar 29 2007, 04:14 PM']I just sent you an email. [/quote] Got it. narf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RezaMikhaeil Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 [quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1222149' date='Mar 29 2007, 09:22 AM']My source is the [url="http://www.amazon.com/Decrees-Ecumenical-Councils-Norman-Tanner/dp/0878404902/"]Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils, edited by Norman Tanner, SJ.[/url] An online English translation also exists here: [url="http://www.legionofmarytidewater.com/faith/ECUM04.HTM"]http://www.legionofmarytidewater.com/faith/ECUM04.HTM[/url] [b]I'll have to look into it.[/b] At the hands of the Jacobites of Antioch (aka Monophysites, now Syriac Orthodox, I suppose), many Maronites were tortured and martyred [u]because[/u] they accepted the Council of Chalcedon. Sadly, blood is on just about everyone's hands. [b]Syriac Orthodox aren't Monophysites and in regards to the Maronite situation, I'm going to need to examine that more before responding but again the butcher of the Copts because of their "supposed heresey [based on hersay] at Chalcedon proves that Chalcedon made a determination.[/b] Wise leaders in both the Catholic Church and Eastern Christianity have learned that we need to acknowledge these tragedies of the past, but not dwell on them to the point that it weakens our resolve to achieve the goal of Our Lord's prayer to His Father, "that they may be one just as we are" ([url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john17.htm#v11"]John 17:11[/url]).[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo el Feo Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 [quote name='Reza']Syriac Orthodox aren't Monophysites[/quote]I realize you reject this label. But, the history books use it. That's why I said AKA (also known as). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted March 30, 2007 Author Share Posted March 30, 2007 [quote] The RC Catechism promotes discernment and following your consicience.[/quote]So for all those Catholics that follow their own conscience and dont accept everything the Magisterium teaches...You ok with that? Actually theres a CC that goes against that even.. [quote] 87 Mindful of Christ's words to his apostles: "He who hears you, hears me", the faithful receive with [b]docility[/b] the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1222668' date='Mar 29 2007, 10:03 PM']So for all those Catholics that follow their own conscience and dont accept everything the Magisterium teaches...You ok with that? Actually theres a CC that goes against that even..[/quote] Budge, if you read my posts, you will see that the Magisterium is one of the teachers of the conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1222668' date='Mar 30 2007, 12:03 AM']So for all those Catholics that follow their own conscience and dont accept everything the Magisterium teaches...You ok with that?[/quote]Hey, Budge. That's not all I wrote. You quoted me as saying "the RC Catechism promotes disernment AND following your conscience" (empahsis added to the word AND). It was pointed out the RC Catechism has many paragraphs about properly forming a conscience. You, like most Catholics herre, didn't look at my sentence completely, nor did you consider the entire section in the RC Catechism regarding forming a consicence. I'm sure there is no need of me re-typing the Catechism in my post here, though I will if you need me too. To answer your question, yes, I do think Catholics (and all denominations of Christians and non-Christians) need to properly form a Conscience and follow it and not just abdicate their intellect to whatever their Denomination/Church says. But I also believe there is a limit to how much we figure out or discern on our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 [quote name='Anomaly' post='1222227' date='Mar 29 2007, 01:13 PM']Sorry to be a burr under y'all's saddles. I was trying to be brief. Let's see what I wrote. "Apparently, blind obedience to men isn't a blessing according to the RC Church. [b]The RC Catechism promotes discernment and following your consicience. [/b]Blind obedience is ignoring your own consicience and just doing what people tell you to do. Hmmm. I guess you missed the part about the Catechism "promtes discernment AND following your conscience". Considering you were responding to Budge's challenge and my favorite point that Catholics need to involve their intellect, I thought I had a nice and appropriate post. narf![/quote] I'm sorry, I read your context as meaning that by "discernment" you meant "internal reflection" and by "conscience" you meant "internal guide." I thought that because of the heavy emphasis you put on conscience and I thought that, just in case the lack of mention of forming a conscience could make someone like Budge misunderstand the Church's position as some sort of hippy-esque "I don't need any guidance, I've got my own conscience already," I wanted to provide context to keep that attitude away. God bless, Micah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1222668' date='Mar 29 2007, 11:03 PM']So for all those Catholics that follow their own conscience and dont accept everything the Magisterium teaches...You ok with that? Actually theres a CC that goes against that even..[/quote] Clearyly you don't understand what it means to have a well formed conscience and obeying conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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