Mel Gibson...exercise Caution, Please!

[peach_cube]

I admit that The Passion is a wonderfully brave film project, especially in this day and age. However, I find myself frightened by all the praise that Mel Gibson is receiving. First of all, MEL GIBSON IS NOT CATHOLIC. He may call himself Catholic, and hold many Catholic beliefs, but He is not in communion with the Pillar of Truth, that is the Roman Catholic Church. So called "Traditional Catholics" who feel that the church has fallen and the gates of hell have prevailed against her, reject the Catholic Tradtion shown by reformers such as St. Athanasius, and instead cave into the pressure and follow the example of men like Tertullian. Where Athanasius saw problems with the Church he sought to solve them. Where Tertullian saw problems he chose to leave communion with the church behind and begin his own (Ironically, for the specific reason that the He felt the Church was not strict enough or had become lax).

Yes, what Mel has done is a testament to his faith. However much the praising done of him on this board is deserved, but it should be shown with some caution. Many are in various stages in their faith, and it would be a shame if anyone is lead out of full communion with the One, Holy, and Apostolic Church due to the "Heroic Works" of Mr. Gibson. The Church itself is trying to exercise caution now with this film, perhaps over this same dilemma, and I believe that we should exercise caution with our praises of Mr. Gibson. I would suggest to keep Mel in your prayers that perhaps his experiences with this film will help him to cross the Tiber.

I myself hope that the movie will be grand and will not reflect the schismatic "traditionalist" beliefs that Gibson holds, only the traditional Roman Catholic beliefs.

To me Mel Gibson is not someone that should be praised without scrutiny. I wish that "The World Over" would have discussed this aspect of Mr. Gibson's beliefs. I only ask for caution, because as it stands, at this moment in time, Mr. Gibson is a very powerful man. He is in a postion of tremendous influence. Thus, I feel we need to meet him with a tremendous sense of caution.

Peace

J

Edited January 26, 2004 by peach_cube

[Laudate_Dominum]

So called "Traditional Catholics" who feel that the church has fallen and the gates of hell have prevailed against her, reject the Catholic Tradtion

Just for the sake of clarity, not all "Traditional Catholics" are like that. Many of the most orthodox Bishops and Cardinals are part of the Traditionalist movement. Traditionalism is a broad term and doesn't imply that one rejects Vatican II, rejects the new Mass or anything else. The Pope has actually encouraged authentic traditionalism with the establishment of institutes such as the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter which exists to preserve and promote the Tridentine Liturgy. There is also a Pontifical Council for the Preservation of Catholic Culture (or something like that) which has similar goals.

Just a point of clarification because I know many Traditionalists (I went to an approved Tridentine parish this morning) and they are not happy about the schismatics types who give the movement a bad name.

[peach_cube]

Thanks for the clarification.

I only termed him a "traditional catholic" because that is what most/all media will represent Mr. Gibson's beliefs as being. I myself of course do not see Mr. Gibson as being a Traditional Catholic, merely schismatic. Thank you for the clarification. I definitely do not want to cause any confusion with the true traditional Catholics.

Peace,

J

[peach_cube]

Just to further clarify, the article that I read stated this.

Gibson has been notably coy in spelling out his own beliefs, but he is what is known as a "traditionalist Catholic", who regards the popes since Pope John XXIII as illegitimate "anti-popes", and who demand a return to Latin rites and literal belief in the Bible. His father, Hutton Gibson, is a much more uninhibited exponent of such ideas, far to the right even of the hardline traditionalists who hold sway in Pope John Paul II's Vatican. But Mel himself, who has built his own church in Malibu...

Therefore, the media is making "traditionalist Catholic" as meaning one "who regards the popes since Pope John XXIII as illegitimate 'anti-popes', and who demand a return to Latin rites and literal belief in the Bible."

Therefore, it can turn into a relatively sticky situation due to media portrayal.

Peace,

J

[Laudate_Dominum]

peach cube, it's all good, I figured as much. I just felt I needed to make the point because, as you pointed out, traditional Catholics are getting a lot of bad press because of the Gibson stuff. Thanks!

[jrndveritatis]

Are we sure that Gibson is out of communion with Rome? It is true that he called Rome a "sheep in wolf's clothing" or at least was quoted as saying that. But could not this movie project have brought him back to the Church? I heard that Mass was offered daily during the filming of the movie on the set by a priest of an orthodox order. I also know that Gibson was closely working with Caviziel, a faithful Catholic, and that Caviziel and many of the others working on the movie went to these daily Masses.

Hopefully working with such good Catholics will bring Gibson back into communion.

[peach_cube]

I must say that I have a genuine fear of this project. For instance, Mr. Gibson will make money on this film. He is doing a great amount of P. R. for the film. It will show on over 20,000 screens nationwide. Can I go and see it, and know that the money I contribute will either, go into Mr. Gibson's pocket, or go to Mr. Gibson's charities. Now money going to charity doesn't sound bad....but consider this: The Charity will most likely be a Schismatic group...perhaps it will be used to lure people to Mr. Gibson's own Schismatic church in Pasadena. That scares me. It is a dangerous business, I cannot in good conscience give money to someone who will most likely use it to fund a Schismatic group that tries to undermine my Church.

Whoa....I cannot see this film....as much as I want to...I can see the potential harm it will do. He will make money from this film. That money will not be used to help the Catholic Church, but to further a Schismatic ideology that will seek to undermine it's authority. :weep:

Peace,

J

[Laudate_Dominum]

Are we sure that Gibson is out of communion with Rome? It is true that he called Rome a "sheep in wolf's clothing" or at least was quoted as saying that. But could not this movie project have brought him back to the Church? I heard that Mass was offered daily during the filming of the movie on the set by a priest of an orthodox order. I also know that Gibson was closely working with Caviziel, a faithful Catholic, and that Caviziel and many of the others working on the movie went to these daily Masses.

I'm not 100% sure but I'm about 95% sure. I know of a faithful, orthodox priest who said Mass on the set for Gibson too. I think he is accomodating the orthodox people who are helping with the movie. And I heard him say that all the Masses on the set were Tridentine, so I guess he doesn't mind going to Mass with a priest in union with Rome if it's Tridentine.

[peach_cube]

Are we sure that Gibson is out of communion with Rome?

Gibson's parish, then, would be the aptly named Our Lady of Malibu on

Winter Canyon Road, Johnson says, looking through a Los Angeles Catholic

directory. But, according to The New York Times Magazine, the actor's

privately funded Church of the Holy Family in Malibu is not affiliated

with any diocese. So, according to Church law, it's schismatic, not a

Catholic church at all.

The Church's Code of Canon Law defines schism--separation from the

Church--as "the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of

communion with the members of the Church subject to him." Gibson's

father, Houston, Texas resident Hutton Gibson, is an outspoken critic of

the Catholic Church and a vocal adherent of the "sedevacantist"

movement, so called from the Latin phrase meaning "empty seat"--their

claim being that every pope since 1960 has been spurious.

Peace,

J

[peach_cube]

I must say that as much as like the internet, I also Hate it with a Passion (no pun intended)

First article saying that we are not sure where Gibson stands.

http://www.pangaeus.com/site/374853/page/139317

However, I do find an Our Lady of Malibu listed in the LA Archdiocese...

http://www.la-archdiocese.org/parishes/parishbynameN-R.asp

Therefore, I stand in confused territory. It looks to me that the Church is in the Archdiocese...

So I cannot find info that clearly answers the dilema...Does anyone have Mr. Gibson's e-mail so I can just ask him straight up?

Well, I am now thoroughly confused. But have come to the descision to continue to exercise caution with Mr. Gibson, seeing that his beliefs are not clear to me. There is nothing wrong with showing prudence.

If there is a clear statement of Mr. Gibson's beliefs I would be keenly interested.

Peace,

J

[IXpenguin21]

the man is being praised for his ART. Michelangelo is believed to have been homosexual and he is praised for his ART as well.

[BLAZEr]

Seriously, can a man be judged on his work and not by some impossible to mee "catholic enough" standard.

[inDEED]

Wonderful points, peach_cube.

[IXpenguin21]

Seriously, can a man be judged on his work and not by some impossible to mee "catholic enough" standard.

i wish i could live to see the day where someone on earth really was Catholic enough for anything. "Catholic" can be replaced with humble, worthy, good natured, pius, holy, etc. just to show that we'll never fully be able to rise to the level that we ought to be at. God knows this. what matters is how we try to rise to that level with His help, falling along the way, and returning to Him for more help. Always always always trying to be better than we once were. this is why it's not our place to judge. we don't know where they are in their attempt at meeting expectations. we just know that we, ourselves, are suppose to do our best in our personal lives. For this, we need God.

Mel's movie is a new form of art. similar to that of the great sculptors and painters who's work accentuates churches all around the world. Mel's is on film though, and will reach into a medium rarely touched upon.

His work at spreading the mutual message of the majority of Christian religions, with a stroger lean towards what Roman Catholics hold as true, despite whatever Mel holds to be true in his own heart, is something that we all should be thankful for.

He is only passionate for the same things that you and i are passionate for: Jesus Christ came to Earth to take our sins away, and is King of the world for ever and ever. Amen.

[socalscout]

However, I do find an Our Lady of Malibu listed in the LA Archdiocese...

http://www.la-archdiocese.org/parishes/parishbynameN-R.asp

Therefore, I stand in confused territory. It looks to me that the Church is in the Archdiocese...

I agree with Penguin and Blaze on this one but I think Our Lady of Malibu is the actual legitmate Parish in Malibu. Mel's building endeavor is not finished yet so there is no name that I know of.