Catholic Priest Admits In Debate $$=salvation!

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Budge' post='1214230' date='Mar 15 2007, 06:11 PM']Actually I give you credit for trying.

Not many Catholics here quote scripture.

Actually the works come out of the FAITH and each individual Christian is called to what whatever via GOd. Its not supposed to be the other way around.

however MONEY is not supposed to be the foundation. A Christian can give, time and other resources.

One thing about the Catholic system is the well-off rich person can certainly give more "alms" and do more pilgrmages to seek after indulgences [yes I know they have other ways to "earn" them but the whole idea of indulgences is wrong].... At the foundation it is an unfair system that gives those with $$$ an unfair advantage.

Anyone here who thinks they can buy God off with cash is going to be in big time trouble![b]

Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Act 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

Act 8:20 [u]But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.[/u]

[/b][/quote]
For the first time, I agree giving doesn't save you. The fact you are saved, you give your all to God.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1214230' date='Mar 15 2007, 06:11 PM']Actually I give you credit for trying.
Not many Catholics here quote scripture.[/quote]

Why Budge I quote you scripture ALL the time.

[Mateo el Feo]

Budge, most of your post is based on strawmen, which I'm happy to dispell.[quote name='Budge' post='1214230' date='Mar 15 2007, 06:11 PM']Actually I give you credit for trying.

Not many Catholics here quote scripture.[/quote]Please, the patronizing attitude doesn't help win any sympathy.

[quote name='Budge' post='1214230' date='Mar 15 2007, 06:11 PM']Actually the works come out of the FAITH and each individual Christian is called to what whatever via GOd. Its not supposed to be the other way around.[/quote]It isn't the Catholics' fault that you make a false dichotomy out of faith and works. What does the epistle of St. James say? "Faith without works is..."

[quote name='Budge' post='1214230' date='Mar 15 2007, 06:11 PM']however MONEY is not supposed to be the foundation. A Christian can give, time and other resources.[/quote]Wow, really? Teach me more, oh wise one...
[quote name='Budge' post='1214230' date='Mar 15 2007, 06:11 PM']One thing about the Catholic system is the well-off rich person can certainly give more "alms" and do more pilgrmages to seek after indulgences [yes I know they have other ways to "earn" them but the whole idea of indulgences is wrong].... At the foundation it is an unfair system that gives those with $$$ an unfair advantage.[/quote]This "Catholic System" that you're talking about only exists in the imaginations of Protestants. As a Catholic, I have never seen anything which would lend truth to this. Heck, the Catholic New Testament has the parable of the widow's mite.

In fact, the only sign I have seen of a religion which judges contributions is the protestant pastor who does his weekly collection and actually [b]reads outloud[/b] each parishioner's contributions. That might work for the pharisees, but it wouldn't work too well for the widow. And it certainly wouldn't happen in a Catholic Church.

[quote name='Budge' post='1214230' date='Mar 15 2007, 06:11 PM']Anyone here who thinks they can buy God off with cash is going to be in big time trouble![/quote]Tell that to the protestant pastor above. In any event, the speaker in the video was quoting "almsgiving", which is helping the poor and needy, not giving to the church in a collection basket.

[quote name='Budge' post='1214230' date='Mar 15 2007, 06:11 PM'][b]Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Act 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:20 [u]But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.[/u][/b][/quote]Budge, this is an excellent example of a strawman argument.

Thank you for avoiding all of my Scripture quotes. You have successfully defeated your imaginary strawmen, but you have yet to challenge what Catholics actually believe.

Edited March 16, 2007 by Mateo el Feo

[Archangel]

Jesus taught us the value of almsgiving:

Mark 10:17-22
17 As he was setting out on a journey, a man ran up, knelt down before him, and asked him, "[b][u]Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?[/u][/b]"
18 Jesus answered him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.
19 You know the commandments: 'You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; you shall not defraud; honor your father and your mother.'"
20 He replied and said to him, "Teacher, all of these I have observed from my youth."
21 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said to him, "You are lacking in one thing. [b][u]Go, sell what you have, and give to (the) poor and you will have treasure in heaven[/u][/b]; then come, follow me."
22 At that statement his face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Budge' post='1214230' date='Mar 15 2007, 04:11 PM']Not many Catholics here quote scripture.[/quote]


Selective vision, or willfully blind?

[Archangel]

Acts 8:18-20 is not condemning almsgiving. It's condemning the sin of [i]simony[/i]. Simon was trying to buy the ecclesiastical powers of the apostles.

18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was conferred by the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money
19 and said, [b]"[u]Give me this power too, so that anyone upon whom I lay my hands may receive the holy Spirit[/u]."[/b]
20 But Peter said to him, "May your money perish with you, because you thought that you could buy the gift of God with money.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Archangel' post='1214437' date='Mar 16 2007, 04:57 AM']Acts 8:18-20 is not condemning almsgiving. It's condemning the sin of [i]simony[/i]. Simon was trying to buy the ecclesiastical powers of the apostles.

18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was conferred by the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money
19 and said, [b]"[u]Give me this power too, so that anyone upon whom I lay my hands may receive the holy Spirit[/u]."[/b]
20 But Peter said to him, "May your money perish with you, because you thought that you could buy the gift of God with money.[/quote]
Bravo.

Giving is suppose to be a part of any Christian's walk. Giving, in the words of my old associate pastor, was worship - so we honour God through our giving.

[Budge]

The giving comes out of the faith.

The giving doesnt EARN the salvation.

Catholic indulgences say otherwise, DAYS EARNED OUT OF PURGATORY.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

A priest is not the Magisterium...moving on...

[Budge]

The Magisterium is made of priests is it not?

Most indulgences COST MONEY, ie go to visit shrines and more.