Conference Seeks Warmer Welcome For Gays

[thessalonian]

The Star/Tribune in Minneapolis has a section on Saturdays titled "faith and values". It is pretty much a setion on anything but conservative faith and values and mostly an experiement in social enginerring. Last winter seven thousand Catholics in the twin cities came to here Scott Hahn and I think it was Jeff Cavins. This year 1500 faithful Catholic men will hear Fr. Corapi. Jeff Cavin's series on the Bible are filling up. But a conference of 500 liberal pro-gay Catholics get's together and that's what they report. nothing on any of the other events that FAITHFUL Catholics attend. Here is the article. These people need to be excommunicated!

Conference seeks warmer welcome for gay Catholics
The archdiocese doesn't approve, but those attending a weekend symposium say the church is defined by worshipers, not Vatican pronouncements.
By Pamela Miller, Star Tribune
Last update: March 09, 2007 – 2:47 PM
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FOR MORE INFORMATION

Catholic Pastoral Committee on Sexual Minorities: www.cpcsm.org

New Ways Ministry: [url="http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze43yrc"]http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze43yrc[/url]

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For Michael Bayly, having a national conference on gay Catholics come to town triggers joy and frustration.
"It's wonderful, but at the same time, the speakers at the conference will be preaching to the choir," said Bayly, executive coordinator of the Minneapolis-based Catholic Pastoral Committee on Sexual Minorities. "The challenge is, how do we get this discussion out to the great middle ground?"

The gathering, "Outward Signs: Lesbian/Gay Catholics in a Sacramental Church," will take place next weekend at the Sheraton Bloomington. More than 500 Catholic "decisionmakers" -- gay and straight -- are expected, said Francis DeBernardo of New Ways Ministry, the event's sponsor.

Speakers and workshop facilitators will include Sister Helen Prejean, who wrote "Dead Man Walking"; the Rev. Richard McBrien, a University of Notre Dame theology professor; Margaret Farley, a Yale University theological ethics professor; author and corporate diversity consultant Brian McNaught; Gregory Maguire, author of "Wicked," on which the Broadway musical was based, and three retired bishops -- Leroy Matthiesen of Amarillo, Texas; Francis Hurley of Anchorage, Alaska, and Joseph Sullivan of the New York City borough of Brooklyn.

The Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis issued this statement about the conference: "We do not endorse or encourage attendance. ... Our position on the pastoral care of homosexual persons is completely in accord with that of the teachings and policies of the Vatican and the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops."

The Twin Cities were chosen for the sixth annual conference because of growing Midwestern interest in the issue and because a number of Minneapolis parishes -- including St. Joan of Arc, St. Frances Cabrini and St. Stephen -- welcome gay worshipers, DeBernardo said.

"The Catholic church is a hierarchical institution with rules, but the music of the people who identify themselves as Catholic is more powerful in defining the church," McNaught said.

"I'm not going to tell people trying to live within the rules that they're wrong," he said. "But we all know there are gay Catholics hungering for a sense of belonging and community. The question is, will we participate in their liberation or their further imprisonment?"

Bayly said he often wonders if it's worth it to stay in a church whose central authority and doctrine disapprove of a quality that he and other gay Christians see as central to their humanity.

"Then I remember that the church is so much more than the Vatican; it's the people of God," he said. "That heartens me. At the local, grass-roots level, there is so much that can be done to embody the compassion and justice that embodies God's love and that I think is at the heart of the Catholic faith."

Edited March 12, 2007 by thessalonian

[Maggyie]

That's the press for you Trust me when I say they think they are doing us a huge favor just by mentioning God in the newspaper at all.

[thessalonian]

"More than 500 Catholic "decisionmakers" -- gay and straight -- are expected, said Francis DeBernardo of New Ways Ministry, the event's sponsor."

Decisionmakers? Ya right, they are going to change the churches position and he gates of hell will prevail. Not a chance dudes.

[MissScripture]

If they don't care what the Vatican says, anyway, why don't they just leave and start their own church?

[Ash Wednesday]

500? That's nothing. Be heartened that the Corapi and Hahn conferences pull so many more people. Of course the newspaper is going to report this because it is ~*controversial*~ ...

It always strikes me as being so strange to hear a parish advertise that "we welcome gays!" Of course I know that to say that really is generally interpreted (justifiably) to be pushing a certain agenda of dissent, but in all seriousness it's not like gay people aren't welcome in any Catholic church. Everyone with a soul is called to God.

It just sounds so funny and redundant. News flash! Carrots don't have trans fats!

[LouisvilleFan]

Well, every parish [i]should[/i] welcome everyone, but why does it seem that the gay and lesbian outreach is left to the "progressive" parishes while the traditional parishes worry more about how much incense they're slingin' around? I admire the fact that these brothers and sisters of ours don't just pick up and leave to the Anglican Communion or elsewhere. That would be the easier choice, but I think it shows that there is something different about Catholicism that isn't found elsewhere. Some of the comments quotes in the article are nearly identical to the things a gay Catholic I recently became friends with shared with me. I feel the first step is simply embracing gays and lesbians where they are right now. If we believe our faith is true and God is love, we can embrace all people in the confidence of knowing that through us God will eventually lead us to a holier lifestyle together.

[i]"I'm not going to tell people trying to live within the rules that they're wrong," he said. "But we all know there are gay Catholics hungering for a sense of belonging and community. The question is, will we participate in their liberation or their further imprisonment?"

Bayly said he often wonders if it's worth it to stay in a church whose central authority and doctrine disapprove of a quality that he and other gay Christians see as central to their humanity.

"Then I remember that the church is so much more than the Vatican; it's the people of God," he said. "That heartens me. At the local, grass-roots level, there is so much that can be done to embody the compassion and justice that embodies God's love and that I think is at the heart of the Catholic faith."[/i]

See, anyone can offer belonging and community, in other words, love, without sacrificing our obedience to the Church. In fact, we are disobedient if we [i]aren't[/i] doing this!

The other thing is this indentity of homosexuality being "central" to one's humanity. Regardless of our personal opinions on the topic, the fact is many gays and lesbians believe God designed them as homosexuals as much as most of us are heterosexual. But I think the missing link is among us heterosexuals because most of us don't identify as well with this feeling that we must give up something central to our own humanity to be Christian. Yet aren't we all stained with original sin? Don't we all see the stoniness of our own hearts? Yet how many of us are struggling on a daily basis to throw off our sinful lifestyles for Christ? How many of us feel like sin is such an integral part of what we are as humans that we are intimidated by the thought of living without it? How many of us are tempted to give up, choosing to tolerate what might even be mortal sin?

It's easy to put down others, telling them the Church will never change its teaching and that lay Catholics aren't the real decisionmakers. These things are true, but we need to give people a reason to accept it and to fall in love with Christ and the Church. If Catholicism is just a bunch of rules, I'll be the first to reject it.

[thessalonian]

My point is not about putting down others but of course you would imply that it is. I don't think Catholicism is JUST a bunch of rules, but of course you would imply that it is.
The angenda of this group is not just to be welcomed LVF.

I am all in favor of welcoming them but on the Churches terms which have been made explicitly clear. But not at the expense of Catholic moral theology which is their goal. Quite clearly you are not familiar with the people listed in the article. Educate yourself.

Should we be welcoming to adulterers and murderers? Not if it means the adulterer comes to the same church as his wife and expects her to sit there while he sits wth his mistress. Homosexuality is a sin. These people will not stop until the Church says it is not, which it will never say. Go join em this weekend in a show of support if you like. I'll follow my bishops advice and stay home.

[thessalonian]

[quote]See, anyone can offer belonging and community, in other words, love, without sacrificing our obedience to the Church. In fact, we are disobedient if we aren't doing this![/quote]

You are easily decieved. He's not talking about obedience!

Edited March 13, 2007 by thessalonian

[thessalonian]

LVF,

This from the CPCSM website:

CPCSM Strongly Supports
Equal Civil Marriage Rights!

This group is not about obedience and living in peace and harmony. It's about militant opposition to the Magesterium of the Church. Your post is very bad advise.

[thessalonian]

I'm thinking about going down to this BS conference with a sign:

"Homosexual Acts = Intrinsic Evil"

[Jaime]

On a bright note, Abp Flynn has forbidden communion at the conference. (They originally planned for it) The group has stated that they will be obedient to him.

[thessalonian]

Yes, praise God, and he is discouraging attendance as well.

[url="http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1052746.html"]http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1052746.html[/url]

hot stuff, why don't you join me down there, 5:30 Friday and 6:30 AM Saturday.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1213437' date='Mar 14 2007, 08:19 AM']On a bright note, Abp Flynn has forbidden communion at the conference. (They originally planned for it) The group has stated that they will be obedient to him.[/quote]
That's rather impressive, actually!

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1213118' date='Mar 13 2007, 04:39 PM']I'm thinking about going down to this BS conference with a sign:

"Homosexual Acts = Intrinsic Evil"[/quote]

Yes, and I can just see the lights suddenly going on in the heads of those 5,000 people: "Oh, yes, of course... homosexual acts are intrinsically evil. I forgot about that. Well, guess that means we should all go home now."

In my previous post, I'm not talking about joining forces with those who are advocating gay civil marriage rights or changing the Church's teaching. If you really want to be a radical and faithful Catholic, why not attend the conference just to hear these peoples' stories. Because the only people willing to listen to them so far are the ones in organizations like this one. They expect you to show up with a sign proclaiming the truth, but that doesn't work in a relativist society. It worked in Ninevah, when most of the citizens agreed to the Jewish standard of moral law, even if they weren't obeying it. Jonah shows up, calls 'em out, and they repent.

Today, I really think a softer approach is called for. However, this is more dangerous because one can find themselves feeling compassionate towards their agenda and find your own faithfulness to the Church slipping. But if your faith is strong, you have a good understanding of it, and a solid community of other faithful Catholics to hold you accountable, then I think you can take the softer approach.

Also, I'm not sure why you think I find Catholicism to be just a bunch of rules. I said that if this were the case, I would be the first to leave. My point in saying that is some people, especially those who aren't faithful to the Church, only see the rules that seem to be against the things they desire in their hearts. How, then, do we counter that? By yelling the rules even louder? Or by patiently showing the one, true, fufilling Love? Our faith is far more than rules... it is, essentially, Love. That's why I am and will always be Catholic.

Speaking of which, I had a number of mortally sinful habits a year ago when I entered the Church, yet I wasn't told that I couldn't enter without overcoming those habits first. Why should it be any different with those who are already in the Church?

[thessalonian]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1213694' date='Mar 14 2007, 04:13 PM']Yes, and I can just see the lights suddenly going on in the heads of those 5,000 people: "Oh, yes, of course... homosexual acts are intrinsically evil. I forgot about that. Well, guess that means we should all go home now."[/quote]

So you have all the answers oh luminous one. Tell me, how many millitant gays have you turned around? Have you gotten to two yet. I have rethought my sign but apparently your about bashing my ideas so what's the point.



[quote]In my previous post, I'm not talking about joining forces with those who are advocating gay civil marriage rights or changing the Church's teaching. [/quote]If you knew anything about cpsmc you would know that's exaclty what you are talking about if you are supporting this conferrence in any way. If you knew the situation in Minnesota you would know that. But you don't and you like to spout off at someone who opposes such things.

[quote]If you really want to be a radical and faithful Catholic, why not attend the conference just to hear these peoples' stories. Because the only people willing to listen to them so far are the ones in organizations like this one.[/quote]


What people's stories? Do you even know what the agenda of the conference is. It's not about gay's telling their stories. Its about how to promote their agenda in the Church. More spouting off. By the way my Bishop discourages attendance. But that apparently doesn't mean much to you.

[quote]They expect you to show up with a sign proclaiming the truth, but that doesn't work in a relativist society. It worked in Ninevah, when most of the citizens agreed to the Jewish standard of moral law, even if they weren't obeying it. Jonah shows up, calls 'em out, and they repent. [/quote]It works because God has planted his laws on the hearts of men. I have a different sign however. But all you can do is criticize.


[quote]Speaking of which, I had a number of mortally sinful habits a year ago when I entered the Church, yet I wasn't told that I couldn't enter without overcoming those habits first. Why should it be any different with those who are already in the Church?[/quote]

If you had said those habbits were okay and not only that that you should be able to form groups and promote them as not sinful you would not have been allowed in the Church. But of course you won't see the difference. God doesn't come in unless we let him. The Church cannot help those who won't acknoledge their sin and the sacraments are more a hinderance than a help. See 1 Cor 11 if you don't believe me. They probably would have killed Paul in a relativistic society. Saying Sodomites won't enter the kingdom and all. Oh wait, they did back then didn't they. He put that somewhere where it would be put before peoples eyes for 2000 years. Do you suppose he put it in there so that those who weren't sodomites could point fingers. I highly doudt it.

Edited March 14, 2007 by thessalonian