Ways To Tell What Denominations, Are Actually Free Masons.

[NewReformation]

[quote name='Budge' post='1213555' date='Mar 14 2007, 11:37 AM']So why are you upset at me then?

I dont support secretive fraternal organizations.

I believe they are not suited to Christians.

Do you agree or disagree.[/quote]

I agree.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Budge' post='1213228' date='Mar 13 2007, 07:57 PM']Sure there are Masons in the Prot churches, after all they are helping the apostasty along, with interfaithism for all.

The Catholic church itself is totally infused with Freemasonary.

Google P2 and Vatican.

[url="http://www.cephasministry.com/freemasonry_knights_of_malta.html"]FREEMASONRY IN CATHOLICISM[/url]

The Knights of Malta is just on another branch of Freemasonry as well as Knights of Columbus which requires oath taking.[/quote]I GOOGLED, and look what I found. It's still automatic excommunication for a Roman Catholic to be a Freemason. Note that Joe Ratzinger is now Pope.
[quote]Issued by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on November 26, 1983.
It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church's decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.
This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance is due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.
[b]Therefore the Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. [/b]
It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 [1981]pp. 240-241).
In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.
Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.
JOSEPH Card. RATZINGER
Prefect
+ Fr. JEROME HAMER, O.P.
Titular Archbishop of Lorium
Secretary[/quote]

Edited March 14, 2007 by Anomaly

[Budge]

Does that mean Benedict is going to disavow connection with the Knights of Malta and other Masonic York Rites?

[url="http://www.cephas-library.com/catholic/catholic_inquest_into_knights_of_mal.html"]http://www.cephas-library.com/catholic/cat...hts_of_mal.html[/url]

Edited March 14, 2007 by Budge

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Budge' post='1213481' date='Mar 14 2007, 10:21 AM']Are Christians supposed to keep secrets?

Jesus was talking about things that only those with "eyes" {spiritual born again people} would be able to see.

It is interesting that the fourth degree Knights of Columbus member must have secrets he cannot share even with his own wife.

Exactly like the Masons, "secret" ceremonies that cannot be shared with anyone.

The Mason swears upon their life I wonder what the Knights of Columbus member swears upon, what is their penalty for divulging the "secrets"?[/quote]


I'm a 4th Degree KofC, and I can assure you, we are not the same as the Freemasons. The masons are an actual "secret society", in which they have a hidden agenda, code, and even promote their own religious belief (to an extent). There is debate on the last part of course, however, through their rituals and implications, they do indeed (either consciencely, or subconscienley) promote as such. We on the other hand, promote and follow only Christ and His Holy Catholic Church. We are not a secret society, we are a society that keeps some of it's harmless/innocent ceremonial rituals a secret, simply to keep them special. If everyone outside of the Knights knew about them, then that would diminish the "WOW" factor for those who join, thus ruining the overall experience.

We do not keep our agenda, our mission, nor the principles of our Order a secret, only the rituals we perform for each degree (which are harmless), and how we conduct our meetings.

[b]All Knights[/b] take a vow of secrecy, not just those of the 4th Degree. From 1st to 4th.


I have a question for you however, do you believe holding secrets is sinful? If so, do you believe that the government should disclose to the public it's tactical stragedy in defeating terrorism? Or should people who promise to keep secrets of other people's personal lives (which I possess) simply blab to everyone about them, thus humiliating those individuals who trusted me and my word?

A secret isn't sinful. It depends on the nature of the secret that constitutes whether or not it is.

Edited March 14, 2007 by Paladin D

[Budge]

You have "degrees" even like the Masons, and call it the same thing except they have 32nd and 33

[quote]I'm a 4th Degree KofC, and I can assure you, we are not the same as the Freemasons. The masons are an actual "secret society", in which they have a hidden agenda, code, and even promote their own religious belief (to an extent). There is debate on the last part of course, however, through their rituals and implications, they do indeed (either consciencely, or subconscienley) promote as such. We on the other hand, promote and follow only Christ and His Holy Catholic Church. We are not a secret society, we are a society that keeps some of it's harmless/innocent ceremonial rituals a secret, simply to keep them special. If everyone outside of the Knights knew about them, then that would diminish the "WOW" factor for those who join, thus ruining the overall experience.[/quote]

Can you tell your wife about these rituals?

what happens to those who tell and get caught?

Look if you are in an organization that keeps secrets, and has secret "brotherhood" rituals, you are in a secret society even if you dont call it that.

If you are Christains why should you pursue a WOW factor outside of Christ?

Edited March 14, 2007 by Budge

[TruthSeeker777]

[quote name='Dave' post='1213322' date='Mar 14 2007, 05:28 AM']I'm a Knight of Columbus, and I can say that the only thing secret is the actual ceremonies -- for any degree.

So Budge, would that mean elected officials sin by taking oaths -- including our president?[/quote]

Hi Dave,
i found this oath of the KOC.
Is it still the same?
How many dergrees do you have?
I see you are a 4th.
The Oath of the Knights of Columbus, Knights of Malta and Rhodes Scholars is based upon the Oath of the Jesuits

(This is an extract of the Congressional Record of the House of Representatives dated February 15, 1913, where the oath is entered as purported to be of the Knights of Columbus).



"I, ............, now in the presence of Almighty God, the blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the Holy Apostles, St. Peter and St. Paul, and all the saints, sacred host of heaven, and to you, my Ghostly Father, the superior general of the Society of Jesus rounded by St. Ignatius Loyola, in the pontification of Paul the III and continued to the present, do by the womb at the Virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear that His Holiness the Pope, is Christ's vice regent and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by virtue of the keys of binding and loosing given His Holiness by my Savior, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical kings, princes, States, Commonwealths, and Governments and they may be safely destroyed. Therefore to the utmost of ray power I will defend this doctrine and His Holiness's right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran Church of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway and the now pretended authority and Churches of England and Scotland, and the branches of same now established in Ireland and on the Continent of America and elsewhere, and all adherents in regard that they may be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome."

"I do now denounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince, or State, named Protestant or Liberals, or obedience to any of their laws, magistrates, or officers."

"I do further declare that the doctrine of the Churches of England and Scotland, of the Calvinists, Huguenots, and others of the name of Protestants or Masons to be damnable, and they themselves to be damned who will not forsake the same."

"I do further declare that I will help assist, and advise all or any of His Holiness's agents, in any place where I should be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Ireland, or America, or in any other kingdom or territory I shall come to and do my utmost to extirpate the heretical Protestant or Masonic doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, legal or otherwise."

"I do further promise and declare that, notwithstanding I am dispensed with to assume any religion heretical for the propagation of the Mother Church's interest to keep secret and private all her agents' counsels from time to time, as they intrust me and not divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing, or circumstances whatever but to execute all that should be proposed, given in charge or discovered unto me by you my Ghostly Father, or any of this sacred order."

"I do further promise and declare that I will have no opinion or will of my own or any mental reservation whatsoever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ."

"That I will go to any part of the world whithersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions north, jungles of India, to the centers of civilization of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things whatsoever is communicated to me."

"I do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex, or condition, and that will hang, bum, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infants' heads against the wails in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same can not be done openly, I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agents of the Pope or superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus."

"In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all corporal powers, and with the dagger which I now receive I will subscribe my name written in my blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the militia of the Pope cut off my hands and feet and my throat from ear to ear, my belly opened and sulphur burned therein with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal hell forever."

"That I will in voting always vote for K. of C, in preference to a Protestant, especially a Mason, and that I will leave my party so to do; that if two Catholics are on the ticket I will satisfy myself which is the better supporter of Mother Church and vote accordingly."

"That I will not deal with or employ a Protestant if in my power to deal with or employ a Catholic. That I will place Catholic girls in Protestant families that a weekly report may be made of the inner movements of the heretics."

"That I will provide myself with arms and ammunition that I may be in readiness when the word is passed, or I am commanded to defend the church either as an individual or with the militia of the Pope."

"All of which I, ............, do swear by the blessed Trinity and blessed sacrament which I am now to receive to perform and on part to keep this, my oath."

"In testimony hereof, I take this most holy and blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist and witness the same further with my name written with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and seal in the face of this holy sacrament."

[KnightofChrist]

At its birth and until the first Christian Emperor, Christianity was a secret society with rituals. Budgism would beaver dam these first Christians as evil. Anti-Pope Budge's sources are a joke, a stamp and a link to some anti-christian website come on.

Whats up Budge its like you feed on this stuff, you enjoy reprinting lies and defacing Christ's Holy Bride. Your logic is greatly flawed.

Edited March 14, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[TruthSeeker777]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1213462' date='Mar 14 2007, 04:54 PM']What is wrong with secrets? Luke is obviously not referring to this, he is referring to the proclamation of the Gospel.
Jesus kept secrets as well.[/quote]
I don't think secrets are wrong.
But when you keep it from someone seeking the truth,you might need to be a liar
Liars have a [b]big [/b]problem.
secrets and lies go hand in hand.
So you either have to hide under your bed with your secret or you might break one of Yaweh's
10 commandments.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Budge' post='1213723' date='Mar 14 2007, 05:29 PM']If you are Christains why should you pursue a WOW factor outside of Christ?[/quote]

I know for a fact that many protestant Sunday 'services' are oriented to get a wow... they have modern 'bands' playing praise and worship for spiritual highs and sermons with audio effects. I know this from talking to protestant friends of mine. One enjoys working the sound board :.

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='White Knight' post='1212457' date='Mar 12 2007, 03:00 AM']Hello, everyone, I'm very curious to know about how some Protestant Demonations are actually Free Masons, and how can we as people indenify the traces of Free Masonry, how can we avoid Free Mason teachings? what demonations are and are not Free Masons?

Also as Catholics how can we know more about them, and how can we stay away from them?

[b]Thanks and God Bless, Pax Christi, Have a Blessed Lenten Season everyone. [/b][/quote]


talk about a freudian slip...I often just say the rebellion anyway.

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1212839' date='Mar 12 2007, 10:28 PM']What about someone who is non-denominational, and just a bible believing Christian?[/quote]

trace your roots brother. I have told you this before. "non-denom" doesnt exist. "bible believing" should be every christian

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1212844' date='Mar 12 2007, 10:41 PM']Is thier church organized? That is a great sign of Free Masonry and the Illuminati is involved in it. Nuff Said![/quote]

explain..does that mean that every organized body is a cult? Considering I worked with ritual and Occultic studies I find this answer to be very naive.

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1213726' date='Mar 14 2007, 05:55 PM']At its birth and until the first Christian Emperor, Christianity was a secret society with rituals. Budgism would beaver dam these first Christians as evil. Anti-Pope Budge's sources are a joke, a stamp and a link to some anti-christian website come on.

Whats up Budge its like you feed on this stuff, you enjoy reprinting lies and defacing Christ's Holy Bride. Your logic is greatly flawed.[/quote]

shhh, budge thinks any christian before she was born is the devil. That Jesus guy started a cult and she is trying to save her Jesus from that Jesus. The bible came down from heaven like manna(which of course is only spiritual also..right?) and was found at the local christian book store

[Budge]

[quote]At its birth and until the first Christian Emperor, Christianity was a secret society with rituals[/quote]

Wow we heard it here, first, Christianity is a 'secret society" with rituals, maybe Catholicism is...

{all those apostles who got beaten, jailed, whipped and martyred, must have been bad secret keepers}

[N/A Gone]

your understanding of the ECF's is amazing I am sure

but could you read

[url="http://www.amazon.com/Mass-Early-Christians-Mike-Aquilina/dp/0879739428/ref=sr_1_3/002-0444478-4436844?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173913286&sr=8-3"]http://www.amazon.com/Mass-Early-Christian...3286&sr=8-3[/url]

I could mail it to you.

Here is what Christianbookreviews.net said (a protestant site)

[quote]Among the most important developments for the Church in the last decade has been the rediscovery of the liturgical forms of the ancient Christianity. While much of the worship of Protestant Evangelicalism has become increasingly trite by appropriating the ethos of the popular culture, there has been a counter movement to find a more authentic worship by studying patterns of the early Church. This examination has been an enlightening experience to many thoughtful Evangelicals as they came to realize their own worship styles were of fairly recent vintage. [b]Even more shocking, the worship of the early Church was liturgical in form, Catholic in outlook, and centered upon the Eucharist.[/b] As a result, many have either left the Evangelical movement for the historic Churches or sounded a call to return to more traditional patterns of worship within their own traditions.
The final piece of the puzzle is for those in the liturgical Churches to realize the treasures in their own midst and correct abuses that have detrimentally affected their own worship traditions. For those in the Roman Catholic Church who are unfamiliar with the history of early Christian worship, there may be no better starting point than The Mass of the Early Christians by Mike Aquilina. Written for a general audience, Aquilina manages to tie together liturgical styles from disparate sources of the early Church as they reflected on the Mystery of the Holy Eucharist. Although the book is primarily aimed at Roman Catholics, all Christians from liturgical traditions can read this book with profit and find comfort in the firm historical basis of their own worship. [b]Those who have shunned liturgical worship might after reading this book reconsider their position and wonder what they have been missing[/b]. [b]At no point does Aquilina force the Roman Catholic position [/b]but to his credit allows the ancient Church to speak for itself.
The first section of the book is a description of the origin and early development of the worship of the Church. Aquilina carefully examines the Jewish roots of the Mass and how the liturgy of the Church is a development of the ancient Jewish worship with the focus now placed on Jesus Christ as the fulfillment of the Old Covenant and the establishment by Jesus of a new and everlasting covenant. The exposition of the Eucharist doctrine and liturgical forms used in the early Church is among the best introductory treatments of the subject as the reader is skillfully brought into contact with the thought of the early Church. After careful consideration of the discussion, readers who have had little exposure to the historical evidence may now see the worship of the Church with new eyes.
In the second part of the book, Aquilina provides primary evidence from the patristic period to support the veracity of his earlier exposition. Of particular interest are liturgical texts used in the early Church. It might be claimed the statements of certain patristic writers are not necessarily representative of the Church as a whole, but when the same themes are echoed in distinct liturgies used in areas separated by great distances, the weakness of this argument is exposed. If one belongs does not worship as the early Church worshipped and does not pray as the early Church prayed, it is also likely they do not believe what the early Church believed.
The book concludes with a fictional reconstruction by Aquilina of what it was probably like to worship in the early Church. This approach is quite compelling as the hard historical evidence provided earlier in the book is fleshed out in this hypothetical account of a Christian family at worship.
Many Christians from traditions not sympathetic to formal liturgy are now taking the historical witness of the early Church seriously. As a basic introduction to the richness of early Christian liturgy, The Mass of the Early Christians is a fine starting point. It is an inspiring account of the patristic mass that calls to the Church, as in the liturgy itself, to "lift up your hearts."[/quote]

Edited March 14, 2007 by Revprodeji

[Budge]

Ive read it all before.

ECFs are just a bunch of guys with opinions same as today.

Like going into the Christian bookstore of 200 AD...

[N/A Gone]

case in point---great understanding of the ECF's

[Budge]

Honestly isnt that what they are, a collection of theologians who just happened to live a very long time ago? Why should I take their words over that of scripture?

I got a rule if they have any connection to Constantine. Origen and or Alexandrian school [ascendant of or descending from], its an early deceiver.

[b]
6And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes;[u] that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written,[/u] that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
[/b]

Dont think of men above that which is written.

Edited March 14, 2007 by Budge