When Priests Pilfer

[Urib2007]

[img]http://www.canadiankettlebells.com/images/time-magazine-logo.jpg[/img]

[b][color="#000000"][size=3]When Priests Pilfer
By Tim Padgett / Delray Beach[/size][/color][/b]


[color="#000000"]Until two years ago, the [b]Roman Catholic[/b] diocese of Palm Beach, Fla., ran audits of its parishes only when they changed pastors. It was a risky, even foolhardy policy when you consider that a parish like St. Vincent Ferrer Catholic Church, in Delray Beach, hadn't changed pastors in 40 years. In September 2003, upon the retirement of St. Vincent's pastor, the Rev. John Skehan, diocesan accountant Denis Hamel dutifully showed up to inspect the books and the procedures for counting Sunday collections. The new pastor, the Rev. Francis Guinan--a close buddy of Skehan's--told him to beat it. But the new bishop, Gerald Barbarito, eventually ordered Guinan to comply--and by Easter 2005, after parish staff had come forward with what they knew about St. Vincent's slippery bookkeeping, Hamel was left dumbfounded. "I called the bishop," says Hamel, now the diocese's financial administrator, "and I told him we had a tiger by the tail."

[img]http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42149000/jpg/_42149116_skehan_-ap203body.jpg[/img]

It was an especially ravenous beast if the allegations are true. Forensic auditors estimate that Skehan and later Guinan misappropriated $8.6 million over 42 years. [b]They allegedly diverted St. Vincent collection money to secret slush-fund accounts while living as hedonistically as Renaissance Popes.[/b] The police report says Skehan, 79, gave a "girlfriend" $134,000, made a rare-coins purchase for $275,000 and owned an oceanfront condominium worth $455,000. It says Guinan, 63, whom Barbarito removed as St. Vincent's pastor in 2005, spent his take on expensive vacations to Las Vegas and the Bahamas; a $220,000 renovation of his parish residence; and payments to his own "paramour," the bookkeeper of his former parish, whom he gave $47,000 for credit-card bills and her child's tuition. Both priests were arrested by Delray Beach police last September--after Guinan returned from a South Pacific cruise--and were charged with grand theft. (They pleaded not guilty.)

[b][u]St. Vincent's may be the worst known case of embezzlement to hit U.S. Catholicism,[/u][/b] but Skehan and Guinan are joined by a gallery of other recent alleged klepto-clerics. Last month a Virginia priest was indicted for allegedly embezzling $600,000 from two Catholic churches--in part to help support the woman and three children he had been secretly living with. Last year a Connecticut priest was accused of pilfering up to $1.4 million to pay for his Audi cars, luxury-hotel stays, jewelry for his boyfriend and a Fort Lauderdale condo. And last June another priest was sentenced to five years in prison after the misappropriation of $2 million from the Church of the Holy Cross in Rumson, N.J.

[b]Just when the Catholic Church in the U.S. was beginning to recover from the sordid sexual-abuse scandal of 2002, it may be staring at a new crisis.[/b] "This is the last thing the church needs when you think how low its moral credibility already is" in the wake of the child-molestation tragedy, says Chuck Zech, director of the Center for the Study of Church Management at Villanova University in Pennsylvania. "But I'm appalled at the lack of internal [financial] controls at Catholic parishes." In a recent study co-authored by Zech and Villanova accountancy professor Robert West, 85% of the 78 U.S. Catholic dioceses responding to their survey (out of a total of 174 queried) reported embezzlement cases--and 11% had scandals of $500,000 or more. Some cases involve laypeople and not priests; and the study's one silver lining is its finding that priests are often the whistle-blowers.

[size=2]Still, the increasing number of clergy getting caught with their hands in the offertory is once again prompting questions about the Catholic priesthood.[/size] Not that clerical enrichment is by any means an exclusively Catholic scourge: it's hard to forget that Protestant TV evangelist Jim Bakker once defrauded his followers of $158 million. But scholars like Zech argue that the financial apparatus at Protestant churches is often "more transparent and encouraging of lay participation" than it is at Catholic parishes--where, says Hamel, some pastors still carry "an Old World attitude that what's in the collection basket is theirs personally to do with as they wish."

[b]Priestly arrogance may not be the only factor. Unlike monks, parish priests do not take a vow of poverty; but they promise to be celibate, which many assume blunts greed since they don't have families to support. [/b]Ironically, says one South Florida priest, many priests see the sacrifice of sex and family as a source of "entitlement--a reason parishioners should provide extra pin money for Father." What's more, priests can resent seeing how comparatively well their Episcopal or Jewish counterparts live--and the fact that Catholics in the U.S. give half the share of their income to their churches that Protestants do, according to the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University.

That's no excuse for pick-pocketing parishioners. But the issue underscores a changing social dynamic between priests and their flocks. In past generations, U.S. Catholics tended to be working-class, and priests often had comparatively cozy lifestyles. "Today," says Terry McKiernan, co-director of the watchdog site BishopAccountability.org "there's been a strange flip-flop." Parishioners are often middle or upper-middle class, while priests--whose median salary is about $35,000, including their free room and board--can be left with a nagging sense of diminished stature in our money-conscious society. Palm Beach is home to some of the nation's most affluent Catholics; but Skehan and Guinan were born in Ireland when it was still dirt poor. By most accounts, Skehan was a beloved pastor, yet one of his most telling remarks to police was that he felt he was "never properly paid."

To read the rest of the article click below:
[url="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1590435-3,00.html"]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...90435-3,00.html[/url][/color]

[KnightofChrist]

Shall I post preacher after preacher that has stolen money from their Churches? Because I can... I could probably if you would reveal it hundreds of preachers from your own denomination which have stolen money from their churches, but what would that prove, that your church is of the devil? Or those men have sinned?

And what is the point of your post? Do you think because of these two priest that somehow the whole of the church is evil?


It is as if you are a drive by killer, you shoot round after round into the faithfuls houses. It would seem you do not care about truth you were soundly defeated in the hate piece against JPII yet no apology for reprinting falsehoods just another hate piece. This thread has no other purpose other than your need to spread negativity .

Edited March 11, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[SJRod55]

You can take any number of professions or backgrounds. Teacher, priests, bus drivers, nurses, there are thousands of cases each and every day - the majority unreported, un noticed and to some unimportant. Once again the Church is singled out as the cancer of society. The fleeting comment in the article about Bakker and his 158 MILLION emphasises the bias of the writer.

[Maggyie]

[quote]Not that clerical enrichment is by any means an exclusively Catholic scourge: it's hard to forget that Protestant TV evangelist Jim Bakker once defrauded his followers of $158 million.[/quote]

You should have bolded this part, too.

I believe that canon law actually dictates that money be carefully watched. It leaves the development of procedures and policies to local dioceses, which are presumably better able to determine what kind of oversight is possible and needed (a tiny mission church in Africa probably can't afford to hire a full-time accountant/bookkeeper, while a wealthy suburban parish should probably have one). My impression is that some dioceses do a fantastic job with financial oversight, while others have more pressing concerns and tend to let it go by the wayside a bit.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Rod' post='1211834' date='Mar 11 2007, 04:24 AM']You can take any number of professions or backgrounds. Teacher, priests, bus drivers, nurses, there are thousands of cases each and every day - the majority unreported, un noticed and to some unimportant. Once again the Church is singled out as the cancer of society. The fleeting comment in the article about Bakker and his 158 MILLION emphasises the bias of the writer.[/quote]

The priesthood is not a profession. It is a vocation.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1211917' date='Mar 11 2007, 11:28 AM']The priesthood is not a profession. It is a vocation.[/quote]

True, true, good point! But I'm sure Rod realizes that. His point was that sin is a common failing; it affects people in all walks of life, whether they are priests or religious or laymen who are also in positions of respect, like nurses and teachers.

Which is also a good point

[Urib2007]

Guys, easy there. I didn't post it to cause more animosity against me. I am in agreement with all of you on how many vocations steal from their establishment. I 100% agree with how most or maybe all (you never know these days) tele-evangelists steal. Just look at how many of them drive fancy cars and live in mansions. I just don't know how they could make so much money, but then again, most of them are authors. Anyhow, I'm not a Protestant, so seriously please stop acting as if I am.
Just because I disagree with some Catholic doctrine that doesn't make me a "Protestant." Trust me that there aren't just Protestants who disagree with your faith.

Edited March 11, 2007 by Urib2007

[Akalyte]

dont tell me, some more of your so called proof that the whole of catholicism is evil.? PLease studies have shown there is more corruption in the shattered counterfeit church A.k.a Protestantism....

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1211989' date='Mar 11 2007, 12:22 PM']Guys, easy there. I didn't post it to cause more animosity against me. I am in agreement with all of you on how many vocations steal from their establishment. I 100% agree with how most or maybe all (you never know these days) tele-evangelists steal. Just look at how many of them drive fancy cars and live in mansions. I just don't know how they could make so much money, but then again, most of them are authors. Anyhow, I'm not a Protestant, so seriously please stop acting as if I am.
Just because I disagree with some Catholic doctrine that doesn't make me a "Protestant." Trust me that there aren't just Protestants who disagree with your faith.[/quote]

So, then, I have to ask, what was the point of you posting this then?

Edited March 11, 2007 by Theologian in Training

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1211989' date='Mar 11 2007, 10:22 AM']Guys, easy there. I didn't post it to cause more animosity against me. I am in agreement with all of you on how many vocations steal from their establishment. I 100% agree with how most or maybe all (you never know these days) tele-evangelists steal. Just look at how many of them drive fancy cars and live in mansions. I just don't know how they could make so much money, but then again, most of them are authors. Anyhow, I'm not a Protestant, so seriously please stop acting as if I am.
Just because I disagree with some Catholic doctrine that doesn't make me a "Protestant." Trust me that there aren't just Protestants who disagree with your faith.[/quote]


If you are not protestant what Christian faith are you? You know to what faith we belong is only fair that you reveal your faith to us, otherwise people will continue to mistaken you as a protestant. And I would add why not reveal it? Why keep it a secret? Are you ashamed of it? I really would not understand why such a thing would be kept secret otherwise.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1211989' date='Mar 11 2007, 12:22 PM']Guys, easy there. I didn't post it to cause more animosity against me. I am in agreement with all of you on how many vocations steal from their establishment. I 100% agree with how most or maybe all (you never know these days) tele-evangelists steal. Just look at how many of them drive fancy cars and live in mansions. I just don't know how they could make so much money, but then again, most of them are authors. Anyhow, I'm not a Protestant, so seriously please stop acting as if I am.
Just because I disagree with some Catholic doctrine that doesn't make me a "Protestant." Trust me that there aren't just Protestants who disagree with your faith.[/quote]

I hope I didn't come off antagonistic in my reply I really would like to hear what church you go to, etc. I get the feeling that you may be an entirely independent Christian who doesn't worship with a particular community?

[Urib2007]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1212053' date='Mar 11 2007, 08:52 AM']If you are not protestant what Christian faith are you? You know to what faith we belong is only fair that you reveal your faith to us, otherwise people will continue to mistaken you as a protestant. And I would add why not reveal it? Why keep it a secret? Are you ashamed of it? I really would not understand why such a thing would be kept secret otherwise.[/quote]

My faith is that I only follow the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible. That's it really; plain and simple. I don't know if there's a name for that.
It's kind of hard to call myself a "non-denominational Christian" because of the negative connotations that label has received. For example, many tele-evangelists claim to be non-denominational Christians and look at how most of them have turned out. Then again, no one is perfect and no one lives a sinless life, except for Jesus. I would like to say that I'm just a follower of Jesus Christ, but I'll probably be labelled as some type of cult member. Many Christian religions started off with really great intentions, but that isn't the case anymore. I know many of you think this is kooky stuff and unbelievable, but satanic infiltrators have infiltrated all major church denominations in the world. There are even satanic infiltrators in the Protestant faith. The media doesn't cover this stuff because it's very delicate. All I can say is right now most of you have laughed at my posts and ridiculed them, however, in time you all will see them come into fruition. It's a hard thing to swallow, but soon you will all remember good ole Urib2007's posts. I am 100% certain you all will soon see the truth in what the world is really up to.

I didn't join Phatmass to learn about Catholicism. If I told you I did then I'd be lying to all of you. I joined because I wanted to show you guys this information, i.e. New World Order's agenda, Illuminati, etc. I know that the majority of you aren't going to believe everything I post. Heck, I wouldn't believe everything I read either, especially off of a forum. I just hope maybe one of you have at least done a bit of research on what I've mentioned to you. I didn't make any of this stuff up and I'm not some crazy kook who lives in a basement. I'm an educated person who wants to spread these messages to you guys.

[Apotheoun]

Embezzlement by a priest, or by anyone else for that matter, is not related to "Catholic doctrine." Sacred Ordination to the presbyterate does not make a man sinless, nor does it take away his free will, which can be used for good or ill. What this particular case shows is the dishonesty of certain men, and bad bookkeeping and oversight by diocesan officials. Clearly, the priests involved should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, under both ecclesial (i.e., canon law) and civil law.

God bless,
Todd

[jeffpugh]

Yes I think we've heard the strange cries of hellish prophesy and strange evils in the world many a time. Even kooks like Sylvia Browne say stupidity like that. She doesn't live in a basement but she believes in re-incanation (and the separation of body and soul... anywho...). give us reason to believe what you say. Not on the basis of human fallacy but on the basis of cold hard proof. Even people of faith figure things out with reason you know...

Faith and reason... how about that

[Urib2007]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1212133' date='Mar 11 2007, 11:55 AM']Yes I think we've heard the strange cries of hellish prophesy and strange evils in the world many a time. Even kooks like Sylvia Browne say stupidity like that. She doesn't live in a basement but she believes in re-incanation (and the separation of body and soul... anywho...). give us reason to believe what you say. Not on the basis of human fallacy but on the basis of cold hard proof. Even people of faith figure things out with reason you know...

Faith and reason... how about that [/quote]

I don't like Sylvia Browne either. My sister adores her though. I don't believe in reincarnation either, although there are some Christians who believe in reincarnation. My mother is a devout Catholic and she believs in it. Now regarding hard proof...What do you mean by that? Like an article by mainstream media? Because if that's the case then I can't offer you much. Mainstream media after all is owned and run by corporations, which are a part of the elite (Illuminati). The media that you see in America is controlled by them, so that means they control what they want the public to hear. Is there a certain topic that I've mentioned that you're interested in? If so, I can see what I can find and post. Thanks, Sacred Music Man, for showing kindness.