Are Catholic Leaders A Part Of The Illuminati?

[Fixxxer]

if it was on [url="http://www.churchofsatan.com/"]http://www.churchofsatan.com/[/url] i would believe it.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1210787' date='Mar 9 2007, 01:45 AM']Do any of you new Catholics agree with what is written below? I'm somewhat confused on what the Catholic Church teaches after viewing some of these pictures. It seems like the individual who wrote it is indeed a devoted Catholic, but then again who knows. It seems as though if it isn't written from the Vatican or Fox News it isn't legit.

[img]http://www.truecatholic.org/pix/jp2buddhist.jpg[/img]
Buddhist patriarch gives audience to John Paul IIMarch 10, 1984

[font="Lucida Sans Unicode"]In “Crossing the Threshold of Hope”, a book by Pope John Paul II, he said [b]“Buddhism is a religion of salvation.”[/b] This is in direct contradiction to past magisterium and particularly, Pope Eugene IV who said, “Buddhism is a religion of damnation.”
The bogus Vatican II documents on Freedom of Religion are seen working in the fabric of JP2, saying that all religions are equally good. God established only one Church by which we may be saved, and that is the Catholic Church.
[/font][/quote]

Again you are reprinting lies. You should do research before putting your name on a source. And talk about taking out of context!

Lets read from the actual Chapter of the book, and not from someone that hate JPII. Remember in this book JPII is being interviewed.

-----------------------

[b]Crossing the Threshold of Hope - BUDDHA?[/b]

[i]Before moving on to monotheism, to the two other religions (Judaism and Islam) which worship one God, I would like to ask you to speak more fully on the subject of Buddhism. Essentially-as you well know-it offers a "doctrine of salvation" that seems increasingly to fascinate many Westerners as an "alternative" to Christianity or as a sort of "complement" to it, at least in terms of certain ascetic and mystical techniques.[/i]

Yes, you are right and I am grateful to you for this question. Among the religions mentioned in the Council document [i]Nostra Aetate[/i], it is necessary to pay special attention to [i]Buddhism[/i], which from a certain point of view, like Christianity, is a religion of salvation. [b]Nevertheless, it needs to be said right away that the doctrines of salvation in Buddhism and Christianity are opposed.[/b]

The [i]Dalai Lama[/i], spiritual leader of the Tibetans, is a well-known figure in the West. I have met him a few times. He brings Buddhism to people of the Christian West, stirring up interest both in Buddhist spirituality and in its methods of praying. I also had the chance to meet the Buddhist "patriarch" in Bangkok, Thailand, and among the monks that surrounded him there were several, for example, who came from the United States. Today we are seeing a certain [i]diffusion of Buddhism in the West.[/i]

The [i]Buddhist doctrine of salvation[/i] constitutes the central point, or rather the only point, of this system. [b]Nevertheless, both the Buddhist tradition and the methods deriving from it have an almost exclusively [i]negative soteriology.[/i]
[/b]
The "enlightenment" experienced by Buddha comes down to the conviction that the world is bad, that it is the source of evil and of suffering for man. To liberate oneself from this evil, one must free oneself from this world, necessitating a break with the ties that join us to external reality-ties existing in our human nature, in our psyche, in our bodies. The more we are liberated from these ties, the more we become indifferent to what is in the world, and the more we are freed from suffering, from the evil that has its source in the world.

Do we draw near to God in this way? This is not mentioned in the "enlightenment" conveyed by Buddha. [b]Buddhism is in large measure an [i]"atheistic" system.[/i][/b] We do not free ourselves from evil through the good which comes from God; we liberate ourselves only through detachment from the world, which is bad. The fullness of such a detachment is not union with God, but what is called nirvana, a state of perfect indifference with regard to the world. [i]To save oneself[/i] means, above all, to free oneself from evil by becoming [i]indifferent to the world, which is the source of evil.[/i] This is the culmination of the spiritual process.

At various times, attempts to link this method with the Christian mystics have been made-whether it is with those from northern Europe (Eckhart, Tauler, Suso, Ruysbroeck) or the later Spanish mystics (Saint Teresa of Avila, Saint John of the Cross). But when Saint John of the Cross, in the [i]Ascent of Mount Carmel[/i] and in the [i]Dark Night of the Soul[/i], speaks of the need for purification, for detachment from the world of the senses, he does not conceive of that detachment as an end in itself. "To arrive at what now you do not enjoy, you must go where you do not enjoy. To reach what you do not know, you must go where you do not know. To come into possession of what you do not have, you must go where now you have nothing" ([i]Ascent of Mount Carmel[/i], 1. 13. 11). In Eastern Asia these classic texts of Saint John of the Cross have been, at times, interpreted as a confirmation of Eastern ascetic methods. [b]But this Doctor of the Church does not merely propose detachment from the world. He proposes detachment from the world in order to unite oneself to that which is outside of the world-by this I do not mean nirvana, but a personal God. Union with Him comes about not only through purification, but through love.[/b]

[i]Carmelite mysticism begins at the point where the reflections of Buddha end[/i], together with his instructions for the spiritual life. In the active and passive purification of the human soul, in those specific nights of the senses and the spirit, Saint John of the Cross sees, above all, the preparation necessary for the human soul to be permeated with the living flame of love. And this is also the title of his major work-[i]The Living Flame of Love.[/i]

[b]Therefore, despite similar aspects, there is a fundamental difference. [/b][i]Christian mysticism[/i] from every period-beginning with the era of the Fathers of the Eastern and Western Church, to the great theologians of Scholasticism (such as Saint Thomas Aquinas), to the northern European mystics, to the Carmelite mystics-is not born of a purely negative "enlightenment." It is not born of an awareness of the evil which exists in man's attachment to the world through the senses, the intellect, and the spirit. Instead, Christian mysticism is born of the [i]Revelation of the living God[/i]. This God opens Himself to union with man, arousing in him the capacity to be united with Him, especially by means of the theological virtues-faith, hope, and, above all, love.

Christian mysticism in every age up to our own-including the mysticism of marvelous men of action like Vincent de Paul, John Bosco, Maximilian Kolbe has built up and continues to build up Christianity in its most essential element. It also builds up the Church as a community of faith, hope, and charity. It builds up civilization, particularly "Western civilization," which is marked by [i]a positive approach to the world[/i], and which developed thanks to the achievements of science and technology, two branches of knowledge rooted both in the ancient Greek philosophical tradition and in Judeo-Christian Revelation. The truth about God the Creator of the world and about Christ the Redeemer is a powerful force which inspires a positive attitude toward creation and provides a constant impetus to strive for its transformation and perfection.

The Second Vatican Council has amply confirmed this truth. To indulge in a negative attitude toward the world, in the conviction that it is only a source of suffering for man and that he therefore must break away from it, is negative not only because it is unilateral but also because it is fundamentally contrary to the development of both man himself and the world, which the Creator has given and entrusted to man as his task.

We read in [i]Gaudium et Spes:[/i] "Therefore, the world which [the Council] has in mind is the world [i]of men, of the entire human family[/i] considered in the context of all realities; the world which is the theater of human history and which bears the marks of humanity's struggles, its defeats, and its victories; the world which the Christians believe has been created and is sustained by the Creator's love, a world enslaved by sin but liberated by the crucified and resurrected Christ in order to defeat evil, and destined, [i]according to the divine plan, to be transformed and to reach its fulfillment" (Gaudium et Spes 2).[/i]

These words indicate how between Christianity and the religions of the Far East, in particular Buddhism, there is an essentially different way of perceiving the world. For Christians, the world is God's creation, redeemed by Christ. It is in the world that man meets God. Therefore he does not need to attain such an absolute detachment in order to find himself in the mystery of his deepest self. For Christianity, it does not make sense to speak of the world as a "radical" evil, since at the beginning of the world we find God the Creator who loves His creation, a God who "gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life" (Jn 3:16).

For this reason it is not inappropriate [i]to caution[/i] those Christians who enthusiastically [i]welcome certain ideas originating in the religious traditions of the Far East[/i]-for example, techniques and methods of meditation and ascetical practice. In some quarters these have become fashionable, and are accepted rather uncritically. First one should know one's own spiritual heritage well and consider whether it is right to set it aside lightly. Here we need to recall, if only in passing, the brief but important document of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith "on certain aspects of Christian meditation" (10/15/1989). Here we find a clear answer to the question "whether and how [Christian prayer] can be enriched by methods of meditation originating in different religions and cultures" (n. 3).

A separate issue is [b][i]the return of ancient gnostic ideas under the guise of the so-called New Age.[/i] We cannot delude ourselves that this will lead toward a renewal of religion. It is only a new way of practicing gnosticism-that attitude of the spirit that, in the name of a profound knowledge of God, results in distorting His Word and replacing it with purely human words. Gnosticism never completely abandoned the realm of Christianity. Instead, it has always existed side by side with Christianity, sometimes taking the shape of a philosophical movement, but more often assuming the characteristics of a religion or para-religion in distinct, if not declared, conflict with all that is essentially Christian.[/b]

[Paladin]

Lo, the real New World Order:
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/Original-nWo.jpg[/img]

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Paladin' post='1210567' date='Mar 8 2007, 07:50 PM']Here's my take on things:

The Devil ain't no joke. He's out there and he - with the desparate passion of a madman - wants us to turn away from God. He is also, however, a very smooth operator. You don't try a rebellion in Heaven without being pretty bright. But he also knows people are looking for him and whatever potential cronies he may have.

So he gets this idea.

He thinks, "Why attack the Church directly? I know I can't break through the gates, as the Lord of Hosts has promised. A direct assault would be favorable, though; these Christianist loons don't break for power or wealth so easily. Hm... Perhaps if I can convince them I am where I am not. A diversion! Then the real fight can begin! Bwahahaha!"

So while there are legions of abortionists, euthanizers, actual Satanists, madmen with nuclear weapons, oppressors of the poor, and enemies of good all clamoring for more power, the Christians are too concerned sorting each other out to deal with it. With a few suggestions and vague accusations, Satan can have Tetzel peddling indulgences, Luther hunting witches and Jews, France fighting to decide if Lutherans or Catholics were better, Chick writing tracts against obscure role-playing games and imagined demonic Papists. Why would Satan go to all the trouble of overthrowing the sucessors to the Apostles and setting up a secret (or not so secret, if the hidden agenda of the Satanic Papists is available online) puppet church when he can get all the Christians to go after eachother's throats? While they're doing that, he can cause all sorts of chaos with athiest French revolutionaries, Communists, warlords, genocidal despots.

Satan's evil, but he's no fool. Don't attack the Body, convince the eye it doesn't need the foot and the Body will attack itself.[/quote]


I totally agree. I see this and have wept about it. Don't get caught up in NWO nonsense when Christian order is crumbling before us. The Holy Spirit will make it right, but I think He has using us as Instruments in mind.

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1210711' date='Mar 8 2007, 11:40 PM']If this doesn't convince Catholics their religion is an Illuminati lie like every other religion in the world save the true church that doesn't have any organization, than I don't know what will.

Good work Urib. Keep up the good fight of faith.

Soon enough, the NWO will crumble, and there are many here who will know what to do when it happens. I've seen many people ready for what is to come.[/quote]



I dont know what this means to you, but you have lost some credibility with me here Full truth. Your understanding of the Illuminati and the NWO is nothing more than worthy of a b-rate made for TV movie. There is no substance to it, not meat, no credibility. It is just sad that such a bogus pseudo-theory is something that you would put your name with. Your Marxist eccesiology of a church with no organization is just spiritual anarchy and would have never been considered until Hume. Trace your roots please. Urib isnt fighting a fight of faith, Urib is attacking the Church, a church he/she obviously does not understand, using weapons that do not exist. It is just sad. I would argue there are soteriological implications to these forms of attack; and if not I would at least strongly question your ability to reason

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1210560' date='Mar 8 2007, 06:24 PM'][img]http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/bentcross.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.ovrlnd.com/Images/popesata1.jpg[/img]

I can't understand why on earth the Pope is seated in a chair with an inverted cross!?!? It's pure blashemy if you ask me. Of all the satanic symbols out there, the inverted cross is the most brutal and most common. Just look at Marilyn Manson and all the other rock rats out there. They overtly display their upside down crosses to showcase their hatred towards the Lord Jesus Christ.[/quote]


St Peter the first Pope was crucified upside down, because he felt he was not worthy to be crucified like Christ, hence why The Pope is seated in a chair with an "inverted cross", which is really just a cross upside down. It is not devil imagery or blasphemy but a reminder of St Peters martyrdom for the Lord Jesus Christ, who the Pope loves very much. Which is very visible in the first image of Pope JPII.

Edited March 12, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[Budge]

The Catholic church FOUNDED the ILLUMINATI.

Anyone who has read the writings of Alberto Rivera knows that.

[quote] That's not a trapazoid, that's a tapered rectangle.[/quote]Ah those nice quibbles, except when you add the eye ball on the rug and fact they are facing the pillar...

The papal funeral was FULL of MASONIC and Satanic symbology..

[img]http://media.bonnint.net/ksl/1/177/17787.jpg[/img]

[i]
In this photo made available by the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, Archbishop Stanislaw Dsiwisz, right, places a white veil over the face of late Pope John Paul II as Archbishop Piero Marini looks on, prior to closing the coffin for burial in the grottos beneath St. Peter's Basilica, at the Vatican, Friday, April 8, 2005. (AP Photo/Osservatore Romano, ho) (Enlarge+)[/i]

[quote] uote:Follow-up: The Funeral and the Veil [4-26-2005]

In the wake of recent questions about the papal funeral (see April 12 and 19), a reader from Burbank, California, asked: "I was wondering why Pope John Paul II had the cloth/veil placed over his face prior to the closing of the coffin and the significance of this action."

The short answer is "I don't know." This was the first time this rite was performed on a deceased Pope, and he had approved the new rite of burial for popes, so I can only surmise that the Holy Father wanted it that way.

Perhaps it is a Slav custom made as a sign of respect. [u]It certainly evokes a strong sense of finality and of parting from this world. But there were no official explanations given as to the reasons behind the gesture.[/u] ZE05042621[/quote]

[url="http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:lGk7cFqFSUkJ:www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur78.htm+white+cloth+over+face+and+funeral&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2&client=firefox-a"]LINK[/url]

[quote]
the Masonic Initiation, in which the upward advancement through the scale of Masonic Degrees signifies that in each degree a metaphorical veil is removed so that the mason progressively acquires the sacred knowledge.
[/quote][quote]The White Veil is a symbol of purity, and is a reminder to the candidate, who is now almost at the close of his search in Royal Arch Masonry, that it is only by purity of heart and life that he can hope to be successful in, or found worthy of the reception of Divine Truth. Passage through each of these veils is also represented by significant Mosaic Signs, each of them deeply important in its symbolism.[/quote]

[url="http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/glossary/glossary_v.htm"]LINK[/url]

Edited March 14, 2007 by Budge

[Dave]

[quote name='Budge' post='1213237' date='Mar 13 2007, 09:08 PM']The Catholic church MADE the ILLUMINATI.

Anyone who has read the writings of Alberto Rivera knows that.[/quote]

Alberto Rivera was proven to be a fraud! And yet you conveniently fail to mention that.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Budge' post='1213237' date='Mar 13 2007, 08:08 PM']The Catholic church MADE the ILLUMINATI.

Anyone who has read the writings of Alberto Rivera knows that.[/quote]
Yes, Alberto Rivera, the Source of All Truth.

Everyone who has read Budge's posts knows that.

[Budge]

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/sr_chick_tracts_p3.asp"]IS ALBERTO FOR REAL?[/url]

Yes considering that stuff he wrote about 25 years ago, is happening today...

[Fixxxer]

[quote name='Budge' post='1213264' date='Mar 13 2007, 08:34 PM']

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/sr_chick_tracts_p3.asp"]IS ALBERTO FOR REAL?[/url]

Yes considering that stuff he wrote about 25 years ago, is happening today...[/quote]

impossible, if he could predict the future HE MUST BE SATAN, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Budge' post='1213237' date='Mar 13 2007, 08:08 PM']The Catholic church FOUNDED the ILLUMINATI.

Anyone who has read the writings of Alberto Rivera knows that.

Ah those nice quibbles, except when you add the eye ball on the rug and fact they are facing the pillar...

The papal funeral was FULL of MASONIC and Satanic symbology..

[img]http://media.bonnint.net/ksl/1/177/17787.jpg[/img]

[i]
In this photo made available by the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, Archbishop Stanislaw Dsiwisz, right, places a white veil over the face of late Pope John Paul II as Archbishop Piero Marini looks on, prior to closing the coffin for burial in the grottos beneath St. Peter's Basilica, at the Vatican, Friday, April 8, 2005. (AP Photo/Osservatore Romano, ho) (Enlarge+)[/i]
[url="http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:lGk7cFqFSUkJ:www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur78.htm+white+cloth+over+face+and+funeral&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2&client=firefox-a"]LINK[/url]


[url="http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/glossary/glossary_v.htm"]LINK[/url][/quote]


I wonder why you left this out?

[quote][b]Follow-up: The Pope's Veil[/b]

I knew that I could rely on our well-informed readers to relieve me of my ignorance regarding the purpose of the veil placed on the face of Pope John Paul II before his coffin was sealed (see April 26).

Many readers, above all those hailing from the venerable traditions of the Eastern Churches, have written to explain that this veil is a common custom for priestly funerals, often accompanied by an anointing with blessed oils.

One reader explains: [b]"In the Byzantine funeral-liturgy for a priest, the large veil (the one used to cover chalice and paten) is placed on the face of the deceased. [u]It is on the one hand a symbol of the strength and protection of God, on the other hand [size=3]a symbol of the tomb of Christ.[/size][/u]"[/b] Other readers attest similar practices in other rites such as the Melkite and Ruthenian.

Some hypothesize that this custom may have originated in Jewish burial customs.

One reader wrote: "In the Jewish burial custom, the Jews would anoint the faces of their dead priests with oil and then wrap them in a white cloth. This same action was apparently performed on Jesus.

"In the early Eastern churches at every Divine Liturgy, the priest would fan his chalice veil over the gifts during the Creed (a practice that endures to this day). During this fanning of the gifts, the priest is not to look over the top of the veil to the other side, a symbolic sign that, here on earth, he has the faith to believe what, after he dies, he will come to see.

"After the death of the priest, the veil would be placed over the face of the priest, with the front side of the veil, which faced away from him during the Creed, touching his face. This veiling of the priest's face was symbolic of the fact that, now that the priest was dead, he now saw what before he only believed."

Another reader referred to the TV commentary on the funeral in which a bishop commented that "the veil was requested by the Holy Father and points to the Scripture by St. Paul: 'We do not see clearly, as through a veil, but then (at the end of time) clearly.' At the resurrection, the commentators added, when the Pope's body is resurrected, he will remove the veil to see God face to face as a soul reunited with his body. I thought it was a beautiful comment."

It is certainly an appropriate comment, although perhaps not the liturgical reason for the inclusion of this rite as I am inclined to accept the Eastern origin suggested by our correspondents.

Mind you, I am convinced that the veil will be removed well before the resurrection, when, following John Paul II's likely beatification, his relics will leave the crypt to join other saintly pontiffs in St. Peter's Basilica itself.

A Hong Kong reader asked some questions regarding liturgical norms.

"According to the Ordo, ritual Masses are not permitted on the Sundays of the Advent, Lent and Easter seasons," the reader noted. "Then, why was a papal inauguration Mass held on fifth Sunday of the Easter? ... We give a lot of theological and liturgical reasons to explain the importance of the liturgical season; however, we break it when we like. ... Also will the "new" (or ancient) style of pallium used for other metropolitans?"

As regards the pallium we will have to wait until the next feast of Sts. Peter and Paul to find out, unless in his next public Mass the Holy Father Benedict XVI reverts to the former style.

With respect to the change-of-Mass formula, our correspondent is correct that, strictly speaking, a ritual Mass is not normally allowed on a Sunday in the Easter season.

However, the Pope is the supreme legislator and is able to dispense from a liturgical law for a justifiable reason.

Such dispensations have already been granted for other just causes such as the celebration of the Immaculate Conception in Spain and Italy and that of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico. These feasts are celebrated even if they coincide with a Sunday of Advent, as the dates are intimately tied up to the religious practice of the people in these countries and are also celebrated as civil holidays.

Our correspondent might want to place his objection in perspective. A Mass of papal inauguration probably occurs about six or seven times a century; a funeral could happen every week. The danger of a papal inauguration undermining the theology of the liturgical year is scant and I believe the occasion more that justifies an exception to a liturgical norm.

Finally, a Michigan reader asked about the significance of the triple coffin, the coins and the biography placed alongside the body, and the nine days of mourning.

The nine days is a fairly traditional period of mourning in many countries although not universal as some traditions have 30 days or another period.

The use of some means of identification of the deceased were customary practices that arose in earlier times, above all, for the burial of nobility and monarchs. Such identification has resulted necessary at times. Tombs can be moved, over time, and nothing is permanent. It is enough to think that the first St. Peter's basilica, finished about the year 330, was almost completely demolished to make way for the present structure over a thousand years later.

The triple coffin probably originated from practical concerns to protect the body, especially as most popes were interred in an above-ground sarcophagus.[/quote]

[Budge]

I posted that on my board about a year ago--which is where I got it from and didnt see the follow-up on original link

Anyhow it sounds like another false tradition, and it is concerning that it matches exactly the MASONIC tradition of funerals.

[quote]Many readers, above all those hailing from the venerable traditions of the Eastern Churches, have written to explain that this veil is a common custom for priestly funerals, often accompanied by an anointing with blessed oils.

One reader explains: "In the Byzantine funeral-liturgy for a priest, the large veil (the one used to cover chalice and paten) is placed on the face of the deceased. It is on the one hand a symbol of the strength and protection of God, on the other hand a symbol of the tomb of Christ."[/quote]

[Aloysius]

of course, the Masons come AFTER the orthodox... the Masons borrow many things from many religions, that's what makes them false. But the Masons borrowing something from a religion doesn't make that thing false; if the masons took the cross as a symbol we would not abandon the Cross; just like when the Satanists stole the humble symbolism of St. Peter's upsidedown cross and turned it into evil, but, despite the danger of fitting into your conspiracy theories, we did not abandon the beautiful symbol of humility.

[cutenickname]

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