Catholic Flowchart Vs. Christian Flowchart

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1209907' date='Mar 7 2007, 04:37 PM']My worry for Catholics is they seem to only believe Jesus opened the door for the possiblity of their salvation, rather then being the author and finisher of the faith.[/quote]Introducing a Catholic to the errors of your peculiar brand of Christianity (Budgianity?) is no cure for a Catholic who doesn't understand his own faith. You might as well recommend that a Christian who doesn't pray regularly should convert to Islam, so that he gets himself on a schedule of five times a day.

[quote name='Budge' post='1209907' date='Mar 7 2007, 04:37 PM']Honestly what do you believe that Christ accomplished on the cross for you? Full forgiveness of your sins present past and future once you accept His gift or not? One reason I deny Purgatory is because it basically says that what Jesus did on the cross was insufficient.[/quote]One could use the same logic to deny Colossians 1:24 ([url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/colossians/colossians1.htm#v24"]link[/url]). Luther's novel theology led him to do the same thing with a bunch of New Testament books.

[Catholictothecore]

[quote name='Budge' post='1209701' date='Mar 7 2007, 08:46 AM'][img]http://i19.tinypic.com/2mqq3ch.jpg[/img]
Now, here is the model I believe in:

[img]http://i16.tinypic.com/2h7fay8.gif[/img][/quote]

Ok...


this is what we call in psych class "slanted."

The same image from a different poster would give a completely different idea. Cause, actually, I think the Catholic one is pretty accurate. Extremely simplistic, but accurate.

I like this textual explanation of why.

God is. God created angels, who are more complicated than man

Man is a complicated being, too. God made him that way.

Man's sin is complicated because it was started by the devil, someone more complicated then he. Therfor, Sin is MORE complicated then man.

God is more complicated than sin. God's plan encompasses all variables.

Man is still complicated. This brings us to your choice box. Repeat, lather, and rinse.

How can you logically expect a simple answer?

[Budge]

[quote]How can you logically expect a simple answer?[/quote]

This is why

2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Why would God make the gospel too complicated for most of the world to understand?

Considering the different levels of education, literacy and more?

God made the true gospel simple and direct for a reason.

[img]http://i18.tinypic.com/2iktcft.jpg[/img]

This means turn to Christ ALONE {not to sacraments, pope, purgatory etc}

[Budge]

[quote]How can you logically expect a simple answer?[/quote]

This is why

2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Why would God make the gospel too complicated for most of the world to understand?

Considering the different levels of education, literacy and more?

God made the true gospel simple and direct for a reason.

[img]http://i18.tinypic.com/2iktcft.jpg[/img]

This means turn to Christ ALONE {not to sacraments, pope, purgatory etc}

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1209947' date='Mar 7 2007, 05:18 PM']This is why

2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Why would God make the gospel too complicated for most of the world to understand?

Considering the different levels of education, literacy and more?

God made the true gospel simple and direct for a reason.

[img]http://i18.tinypic.com/2iktcft.jpg[/img]

This means turn to Christ ALONE {not to sacraments, pope, purgatory etc}[/quote]

The gospel only seems complicated because you have reduced your view of it to one unrealistic, unbiblical position.

[Groo the Wanderer]

Problem is that Budgie is incapable of comprehending scripture as a cohesive whole. To get it it 'fit' with her Budgiology, she has to take one verse at a time, genereally WAY out of context. Also has to ignore the meaning of whole sections (John 6) and refuse to acknowledge some of theme as vaild.

Until she learns to read the whole word of God, she will refuse to accept it.

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1209836' date='Mar 7 2007, 01:33 PM']Thes, that was awesome.

Budge, My flow chart would say if I ate an oreo cookie I would look like Brad Pitt. I can rest assure that I will look like brad pitt if I eat my cookie. Or maybe even just accepting the idea that I need the cookie, or wait, maybe just accepting that I wanna look like brad pitt can make me look like brad pitt. Why would I ever have to do anything at all? And since it is just an intellectual thing I guess I need no change, and I need never change the decision.

**look like Brad PItt, look like BRad Pitt**

did it work, or do I still look like Nick Lachey?[/quote]


[quote name='Budge' post='1209907' date='Mar 7 2007, 03:37 PM']None of that made any sense... [/quote]

Makes perfect sense. I explained how simple is not always correct, and I just discussed the analogy further

oh, I do look like Nick Lachey, makes me mad but the wife and her friends love it.

[Fishmaker]

[img]http://i16.tinypic.com/2h7fay8.gif[/img]

Can I point out something very obvious?

According you your chart, there is a continual circle of being saved... And grace can flow all the way to unsaved. It doesn't make any sense at all.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Budge' post='1209948' date='Mar 7 2007, 05:24 PM']This is why

2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Why would God make the gospel too complicated for most of the world to understand?

Considering the different levels of education, literacy and more?

God made the true gospel simple and direct for a reason.

[img]http://i18.tinypic.com/2iktcft.jpg[/img]

This means turn to Christ ALONE {not to sacraments, pope, purgatory etc}[/quote]


To be saved, you must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31), but the Sacred Scriptures show other things you must also do to be saved.

You must endure to the end. Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13.

You must accept the Cross (suffering). Matthew 10:38, Matthew 16:24-25, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:27.

You must be baptized with water. Mark 16:16, John 3:3-5 Titus 3:5, I Peter 3:20-21.

You must be a member in God's true church. Acts 2:47.

You must confess your sins. James 5:16, I John 1:9

You must keep the Commandments of God. Matthew 5:19-20, Matthew 7:21

You must heed the words of St. Peter, the first Pope. Acts 11:13-14, Acts 15:7.

You must eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus Christ. John 6:51-58, I Corinthians 10:16, I Corinthians 11:23-29

[Socrates]

I'll bet the bank that "Catholic flowchart" didn't come from any actual Catholic source, but was probably pasted from some anti-Catholic website.

Posting these silly charts proves absolutely nothing about Biblical truth.

And it's getting quite tiresome to be continually lectured by Budge on what the Catholic Church "really teaches." If you want to know what the Church really teaches, read the Catechism, don't go to some anti-Catholic website. Everyday, Budge reveals more of her ignorance.

And aren't flow-charts unBiblical practices??

Edited March 8, 2007 by Socrates

[Socrates]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1210017' date='Mar 7 2007, 08:21 PM']To be saved, you must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31), but the Sacred Scriptures show other things you must also do to be saved.

You must endure to the end. Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13.

You must accept the Cross (suffering). Matthew 10:38, Matthew 16:24-25, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:27.

You must be baptized with water. Mark 16:16, John 3:3-5 Titus 3:5, I Peter 3:20-21.

You must be a member in God's true church. Acts 2:47.

You must confess your sins. James 5:16, I John 1:9

You must keep the Commandments of God. Matthew 5:19-20, Matthew 7:21

You must heed the words of St. Peter, the first Pope. Acts 11:13-14, Acts 15:7.

You must eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus Christ. John 6:51-58, I Corinthians 10:16, I Corinthians 11:23-29[/quote]
Apparently, these Scripture verses are too complicated for Budge to handle. Budge wants a bumpersticker, not a Bible.

[Apotheoun]

[img]http://i16.tinypic.com/2h7fay8.gif[/img]
The key point in Budge's soteriological chart is that human free choice determines whether or not a man is saved. In other words, if a man chooses to accept grace he is saved, but if he chooses to reject grace he is damned. Thus, according to Budge's chart each man saves himself, and that is what makes the chart so very interesting.

[Jaime]

See now if this was in PowerPoint, well you might convince me then.

But a chart?

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1210056' date='Mar 7 2007, 09:10 PM'][img]http://i16.tinypic.com/2h7fay8.gif[/img]
The key point in Budge's soteriological chart is that human free choice determines whether or not a man is saved. In other words, if a man chooses to accept grace he is saved, but if he chooses to reject grace he is damned. Thus, according to Budge's chart each man saves himself, and that is what makes the chart so very interesting.[/quote]It's also strange that in Budgianity, all mankind is born saved (i.e. no Original Sin), and a person can only un-save himself or herself. I wonder if Budge realizes that this is closer to Islamic teachings than Christian soteriology.

[Azriel]

I draw process models for a living .... I could have done a much better job.