Wannabe Warlock Priest In Michigan

[Budge]

Sorry, thats not an excuse, this guy is WELL-KNOWN, has published books and held HIGH positions in Michigan politican organizations..it is not like he was hiding out in some small town parish and no one knew. That just doesnt cut it.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Budge' post='1207691' date='Mar 4 2007, 09:37 AM']Sorry, thats not an excuse, this guy is WELL-KNOWN, has published books and held HIGH positions in Michigan politican organizations..it is not like he was hiding out in some small town parish and no one knew. That just doesnt cut it.[/quote]

No he is not well known. And yes it does cut it.

Holy Mother Church always moves in the proper direction. It does not always do so as quickly as its detractors would like. But the detractors don't move the Church, the Holy Spirit does.

[Budge]

[quote]Holy Mother Church always moves in the proper direction. It does not always do so as quickly as its detractors would like. But the detractors don't move the Church, the Holy Spirit does.[/quote]

So it was the work of the Holy Spirit for this guy to be left in place poisoning minds towards the occult?

Come on why make excuses for this?

just say...

THE BISHOP WAS WRONG.

Think about the kids, and teens at least who were sitting in this guys church learning this stuff and what happened to them spiritually.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Budge' post='1207339' date='Mar 3 2007, 04:21 PM']Sure, a few sinners doesnt discredit anyone and Jesus Christ is Lord no matter what but you are joined with this institution that tolerates this in its leadership and priests. Your leadership is growing more and more corrupt, no lines being drawn and more and more New Age and false interfaithism being taught.

I wont join a Christian church that tolerates these sorts of things outside your system, so why do you?

I wonder how many people this guy led into out and out occutlism and into hell, and no bishop ever lifted a finger...[/quote]


Well then I guess you would not have joined the Church at Corninth because of the scandal of 1 Cor 5. But that was in fact the Church of Christ. It needed some mending and Paul took care of that but evidently it had been in scandal for some time before Paul laid down the law. Where does John tell people to head out the doors of the Churches in revelations because of the scandals within? He tells them to reform. He doesn't excommunicate them all immediately.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Budge' post='1207696' date='Mar 4 2007, 09:46 AM']So it was the work of the Holy Spirit for this guy to be left in place poisoning minds towards the occult?

Come on why make excuses for this?

just say...

THE BISHOP WAS WRONG.

Think about the kids, and teens at least who were sitting in this guys church learning this stuff and what happened to them spiritually.[/quote]

Who's making excuses? You are using this extreme example as a reason that people should leave the Church. I am disagreeing with you and demonstrating why. What I've said is and has been always true

The Church is moved by the Holy Spirit. If it doesn't move fast enough for you, take it up with the Holy Spirit

[Budge]

[quote]Well then I guess you would not have joined the Church at Corninth because of the scandal of 1 Cor 5. But that was in fact the Church of Christ. It needed some mending and Paul took care of that but evidently it had been in scandal for some time before Paul laid down the law. Where does John tell people to head out the doors of the Churches in revelations because of the scandals within? He tells them to reform. He doesn't excommunicate them all immediately.[/quote]

Difference...Paul TOOK CARE OF IT, like any Godly minister would concerning a scandal in the church, paul practiced CHURCH DISCIPLINE, which except for when it comes to threats to their power, the Catholic Church does not. This is why a New Ager reincarnation preaching priest was left over unsuspecting laity.

We are not supposed to follow false preachers {I am consistent with this across the board applying it to men within my own church}. Jesus warned of wolves in sheeps clothing. This idea scares me for the souls of Catholics, because they are taught to follow those they KNOW are suspect and teaching evil.

Let me explain, I came out of a great church with a humble pastor that abided by Gods Word, because I had to move, and I went to a church that was the same type as my old church. The pastor there preached false things from the pulpit...he preached Touch Not the Lord's Anoninted meaning HIMSELF as well as other false doctrine. I walked I did not put myself under his tutelage. I am still a Christian irregardless.

Because of the way your church operates...and because the authority of men is so promoted...you are told that you must put yourself under the authority of even corrupt men. Ie Catholic moves to new town, [only Catholic Church in town for miles] priest teaches false doctrine, but Catholic is stuck. There is no notion of testing the words of any man according to scripture.

One can seek to try and reform a church or take two witnesses to try and lead a pastor to repentance who has gone off the rails to false doctrine but you do not remain under false preachers who will feed you spriitual poison.

There is no reform of the Roman Catholic system. What are you going to do write a letter to the bishop while he throws it in the trashcan. Even the priests themselves are powerless under the bishops, look at mr. warlock priest, read the article again, OTHER PRIEST COMPLAINED and simply were ignored.

I respect many individual Catholics as people and there are good guy priests in the trenches--who have good intentions but are simply misled, but I have no respect for the Catholic hierarchy, [bishops, cardinals and popes] pure and simple, by many horrible actions, they have proven themselves unworthy of your respect as well.

This is just one more time, they simply didnt care about the sheep they only want to prey upon. Im thinking of all the poor kids who probably grew up in that church probably now adamantly exploring the occult.

[thessalonian]

Let's all just lump all the bishops together budge. I agree the local bishop in your story has been neglectful. Those outside the diocese do not have authority in his diocese and very likely did not know of the incident. Some of them are neglectful in their own diocese as well. Some are not. There were local bishops in 1 Cor 5 as well budge.

[Budge]

Not one living bishop has broken ranks to protest the interfaith movement or the policies that led to the hiding of sex abusers. That is all I need to know.

I believe it is the dross that comes to the top in the Catholic Church. The good guys and the whistleblowers are like Father Haley, censored and more and nearly thrown out.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1207397' date='Mar 3 2007, 07:33 PM']I've got a family member who admires Sylvia Browne. I don't agree with her nonsense. What kind of stuff are you dealing with at home regarding Browne?[/quote]
Just the whole idea that "we're on our own spiritual path'' and that religions are equal, not to mention re-incarnation... also the person follows this 'prophet' or w/e like a lost sheep believing whatever poison is fed. The best I can do is feed true doctrine when I get the chance, but I don't openly fight in order to prevent an open war in my house. I know what the scriptures say about Christ bringing the sword dividing mother against daughter... 2 against 3, etc. but I need my sanity.

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1207675' date='Mar 4 2007, 10:13 AM']Do you know something, you're right. What good are the bishops except to deal with the kooks? When they let them go without even a word of correction, or worse pussyfoot around chit chat about how much Jesus loves everybody, I get sick to my stomach.

These men are in a position to tell people off royally, and they never do it. No wonder nobody has any respect for the heirarchy anymore. Time was a priest would call you out during the homily just like a Baptist minister. Time was.

Shame is good, the laity need to be shamed more.[/quote]

Shame is good. Both the laity and the Bishops, priests, etc need it. It keeps us in line.

[quote name='Budge' post='1207701' date='Mar 4 2007, 10:56 AM']Difference...Paul TOOK CARE OF IT, like any Godly minister would concerning a scandal in the church, paul practiced CHURCH DISCIPLINE, which except for when it comes to threats to their power, the Catholic Church does not. This is why a New Ager reincarnation preaching priest was left over unsuspecting laity.

We are not supposed to follow false preachers {I am consistent with this across the board applying it to men within my own church}. Jesus warned of wolves in sheeps clothing. This idea scares me for the souls of Catholics, because they are taught to follow those they KNOW are suspect and teaching evil.

Let me explain, I came out of a great church with a humble pastor that abided by Gods Word, because I had to move, and I went to a church that was the same type as my old church. The pastor there preached false things from the pulpit...he preached Touch Not the Lord's Anoninted meaning HIMSELF as well as other false doctrine. I walked I did not put myself under his tutelage. I am still a Christian irregardless.

Because of the way your church operates...and because the authority of men is so promoted...you are told that you must put yourself under the authority of even corrupt men. Ie Catholic moves to new town, [only Catholic Church in town for miles] priest teaches false doctrine, but Catholic is stuck. There is no notion of testing the words of any man according to scripture.

One can seek to try and reform a church or take two witnesses to try and lead a pastor to repentance who has gone off the rails to false doctrine but you do not remain under false preachers who will feed you spriitual poison.

There is no reform of the Roman Catholic system. What are you going to do write a letter to the bishop while he throws it in the trashcan. Even the priests themselves are powerless under the bishops, look at mr. warlock priest, read the article again, OTHER PRIEST COMPLAINED and simply were ignored.

I respect many individual Catholics as people and there are good guy priests in the trenches--who have good intentions but are simply misled, but I have no respect for the Catholic hierarchy, [bishops, cardinals and popes] pure and simple, by many horrible actions, they have proven themselves unworthy of your respect as well.

This is just one more time, they simply didnt care about the sheep they only want to prey upon. Im thinking of all the poor kids who probably grew up in that church probably now adamantly exploring the occult.[/quote]

I have concern for all of this too, but some day (hopefully soon) the Saint Paul of our area will come and lay the smackdown. Things move slowly in the Church. I trust the Holy Spirit's guidance in this situation. Things can be done meanwhile to fight heresy. Because [b]we[/b] are a Church and stand and fall [b]together[/b], then we should write letters and complain... we can even go above the bishop's head. Cardinals, and the Pope can find out things surprisingly faster than the bishop. We can not just sit and complain and beaver dam the hierarchy. Silent witness does not solve problems.

[FullTruth]

Lets just say, this is the reason I wouldn't go to any church that teaches false doctrine, no matter what truths to taught.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1207817' date='Mar 4 2007, 03:07 PM']Not one living bishop has broken ranks to protest the interfaith movement or the policies that led to the hiding of sex abusers. That is all I need to know.

I believe it is the dross that comes to the top in the Catholic Church. The good guys and the whistleblowers are like Father Haley, censored and more and nearly thrown out.[/quote]
Define "interfaith movement".
And if it is something against catholic teaching give me a statement from every single bishop in the US proving they are in agreement and against a teaching of the Church.
Same with item two.
Give me a statement from every single Catholic Bishop in the US saying they agree with moving priests CONVICTED of a crime.

Either that or retract your statement here and now.
You are not gonna get away with broad condemning statements with no proof offered.

[Budge]

[quote]The Church is moved by the Holy Spirit. If it doesn't move fast enough for you, take it up with the Holy Spirit[/quote]


I hate to tell you but leaving Mr. Magick Monsignor in that position wasnt the work of the Holy Spirit but the other guy.....the ENEMY.

[jeffpugh]

Okay Budge has a point. What was said about the Holy Spirit is a broad statement. It is true that the lame tainted priest is where he is because of the grip of the evil one.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1208150' date='Mar 4 2007, 08:53 PM']Okay Budge has a point. What was said about the Holy Spirit is a broad statement. It is true that the lame tainted priest is where he is because of the grip of the evil one.[/quote]

I think you're missing Budge's point. Budge's point is that this one priest is enough reason for folks to leave Holy Mother Church. And in that Budge is wrong.

Is the priest off his nut? To be sure. Others have reported him as a heretic and the Church will resolve it. Budge is trying to make the point that the Church is ALLOWING him to be a heretic. And in that Budge is wrong

[Anomaly]

Budge gives multiple instances and examples of what is wrong with the RC Church. Her conclusion, based on the body of points, is that people should reject EVERYTHING that is Roman Catholic.

The RC Church has it's good points, and bad points. Continued reactionary defense of EVERYTHING Roman Catholic is as egarious an error as reactionary rejection of EVERYTHING Roman Catholic.