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[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1207804' date='Mar 4 2007, 02:51 PM']I agree with you there Truthseeker.

To be honest with you folks, I am creeped out by the Catholic acceptance and adoption of anything pagan. In fact this was one notion that led me right into the Unitarian Universalist church, I was prepped and primed by my Catholic school universalist education to be accept all religions as leading towards God.

Is EVERYTHING pagan good to you guys?

If snakes are too, that is really WORRISOME!
And Rev, OF COURSE IM going to go FUNDIE on you, I am a fundamentalist Christian after all. That is not a bad word to me like it is to most of the world.
Anyone remember what happened to the brazen serpent, it was SMASHED up into bits and pieces.
I dont agree, that is moral relativism in a nutshell, if something is evil, we can make it good just by saying so.

I think it is disturbing that Rome baptizes all sorts of pagan, occult, and Satanic and nephilim symbols.

Do you folks realize you are adopting the same outlooks as Starhawk and pals? [a notorious witch]

Ive seen a change in Catholic circles even in the few years Ive been doing this, I fully expect the Pentagram to be embraced within 5 years by Catholics if the Lord has tarried. Like witches who call themselves "white" even though their power comes from Satan and his demons, you will tell yourself the upright pentagram is a symbol for good, just as people here have insisted that the occult symbol of a snake eating its tail is "good".

[[/quote]
Thats ok Budge, I am creeped out by you seeing a demon under every rock and a satanist around every corner as well. I suppose you have no use for Christmas trees or easter bunnies or shamrocks either, or have any crosses on your wall, or touch dollar bills.
A symbol is a shape given meaning by those who use it.
Catholics love symbols, while fundies seem afraid of everything.
But I know Jesus defeated the devil, so what should I be afraid of?

Romans 8:38: For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39: nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1207804' date='Mar 4 2007, 02:51 PM']I agree with you there Truthseeker.

To be honest with you folks, I am creeped out by the Catholic acceptance and adoption of anything pagan. In fact this was one notion that led me right into the Unitarian Universalist church, I was prepped and primed by my Catholic school universalist education to be accept all religions as leading towards God.

Is EVERYTHING pagan good to you guys?[/quote]
No, of course not. Things that aren't intrinsically evil, though...they don't really bother me. Pagans hug, you know, but I wouldn't stop hugging. Pagans even post on Phatmass. What do you think of that? Does that mean you're doing something Pagan? But, no doubt, you'll tell me that it's different when we take an already existing pagan thing and adopt and adapt it. Certainly, for instance, Mussolini's adoption of the fascis logo (an ancient Roman symbol) must have been bad, right? Of course not. The logo is an axe in the middle of a bunch of sticks. Nothing evil in that. What's more, its meaning isn't pagan...its meaning is just that there is strength in numbers. So why shouldn't Christians use it, other than the possible scandal of others thinking we're fascists?

[N/A Gone]

hmm, third thread where Budge only replies to the easy or non-important portions of my responses to her

[Urib2007]

[quote name='Farsight one' post='1207915' date='Mar 4 2007, 02:35 PM']That was exactly what she was trying to do. She made an obviously ridiculous statement that could be paralleled to yours to show how ridiculuos yours was. Apparently this correlation was beyond you.

Also - respond to my point please. The occult use crosses as symbols in their workings. Are you going to avoid the use of crosses too because of that?[/quote]

I'm glad you're responding to my posts. It's good to know someone is keeping a look out for them.
As far as I know she wasn't trying to make a ridiculous statement. If she was, she would've said so I'm sure. You know Mother of Pirl isn't shy in making her point.

Regarding your question, yeah the satanists do use crosses, but they turn them upside down.

[Farsight one]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1207959' date='Mar 4 2007, 06:10 PM']Regarding your question, yeah the satanists do use crosses, but they turn them upside down. [/quote]An upside down cross, is still a cross. Or would cmom's circular snake be perfectly ok to you if she just turned it upside down? And what about a pentagram?

Yes, some satanists turn their crosses upside down. Some do not. Some don't even believe in God or the devil. But, we were talking about witchcraft in general, weren't we?

[Budge]

Are [b]any[/b] symbols off limits for you folks?

I guess you could make these symbols "good" for you too, and change their meaning to suit your own interests, thats what you are telling me after all..

[img]http://www.exposingsatanism.org/images/symbols/baphomet.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.exposingsatanism.org/images/symbols/sataniccross.jpg[/img]

According to the logic here, one of you could tell me, its a CUTE goat what are you complaining about you crazy fundie who is scared of every devil under ever rock.

This is the scariest thing I see in Catholics how there are no lines drawn.

If the snake is ok then so is the Baphomet.

The above logic and excuses for using occultic symbols makes no sense.

How would you adapt these symbols, draw a smile on the face of the goat?

You know it is sad how your church teaches you to embrace EVERYTHING and I believe it puts your very souls in major danger.

Edited March 4, 2007 by Budge

[Farsight one]

[quote name='Budge' post='1207973' date='Mar 4 2007, 06:21 PM']Are [b]any[/b] symbols off limits for you folks?

I guess you could make these symbols "good" for you too, and change their meaning to suit your own interests, thats what you are telling me after all..

[img]http://www.exposingsatanism.org/images/symbols/baphomet.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.exposingsatanism.org/images/symbols/sataniccross.jpg[/img]

According to the logic here, one of you could tell me, its a CUTE goat what are you complaining about you crazy fundie who is scared of every devil under ever rock.[/quote]Well, I'd remove the words from the pictures before using them for ANYTHING. Also, I don't think that goat is cute at all. It looks possesed to me.

I think it is important to ask if either of these symbols have been used for anything OTHER than satanic practices. If not, I'd tend to avoid their use myself. If some band like Jars of Clay suddenly adopted a star with a circle around it as their band sign, I'd wonder why, but I wouldn't instantly think that they were trying to corrupt the masses. I can't say this enough - it's the intent behind the symbol, not the symbol itself that is good or bad. We had a similar conversation about my avatar a couple of months ago. I figure that this is similar to that.


[quote]If the snake is ok then so is the Baphomet.[/quote]Baphomet? You're known for posting pictures of everything. Where's your pictures?

[got2luvjc]

[quote name='Budge' post='1207973' date='Mar 4 2007, 07:21 PM']Are [b]any[/b] symbols off limits for you folks?


You know it is sad how your church teaches you to embrace EVERYTHING and I believe it puts your very souls in major danger.[/quote]


#1 I wonder why you aren't trying to talk to the atheists or the people who do not know Jesus and trying to save their souls... everyone here believes in Jesus
#2 SEVERE over statement. Yeah, I'm SO sure that the first line in the Catechism is "accept everything, deny nothing, and do whatever the heck you want!!" *sarcasm*

Edited March 5, 2007 by got2luvjc

[Budge]

[quote]#1 I wonder why you aren't trying to talk to the atheists or the people who do not know Jesus and trying to save their souls... everyone here believes in Jesus[/quote]I do all the time, I have witnessed to a Jew--this very week, and witness to atheists, and wiccans all the time.

You know my beliefs about Catholicism, Ive made those clear...

[quote]
#2 SEVERE over statement. Yeah, I'm SO sure that the first line in the Catechism is "accept everything, deny nothing, and do whatever the heck you want!!" *sarcasm*[/quote]

Actually Im a bit surprised, I know when I was a Catholic teen using snake symbols
probably was still out...



I just want to know if there is any symbol here people would reject....?

Edited March 5, 2007 by Budge

[got2luvjc]

[quote name='Budge' post='1208033' date='Mar 4 2007, 08:08 PM']I do all the time, I have witnessed to a Jew--this very week, and witness to atheists, and wiccans all the time.

You know my beliefs about Catholicism, Ive made those clear...
Actually Im a bit surprised, I know when I was a Catholic teen using snake symbols
probably was still out...



I just want to know if there is any symbol here people would reject....?[/quote]

most if this thread is new info for me, because I don't know much about wiccanism (if that's a word) because I'm not one, so I don't know the symbols they use.

The most important symbol to me is the Cross, because on it hung my salvation.

So, I guess I'd say that if you Budge said to me "here got2luvjc, this is a symbol and wiccans think it means X and Christians think it means Y, would you support it?" I guess my answer would be "only if it was made clear that I support the Christian meaning behind it"

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1207959' date='Mar 4 2007, 07:10 PM']As far as I know she wasn't trying to make a ridiculous statement. If she was, she would've said so I'm sure. You know Mother of Pirl isn't shy in making her point.[/quote]

Ah but I was doing exactly as he said. Ya missed the point entirely.

[N/A Gone]

We are missing the main point here.

The term "budge" is an automatic link to

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budge"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budge[/url]

and that is just scary.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1208033' date='Mar 4 2007, 08:08 PM']I do all the time, I have witnessed to a Jew--this very week, and witness to atheists, and wiccans all the time.

You know my beliefs about Catholicism, Ive made those clear...
Actually Im a bit surprised, I know when I was a Catholic teen using snake symbols
probably was still out...



I just want to know if there is any symbol here people would reject....?[/quote]
There are many symbols I would reject.
But when I read that the Irish used the snake is a symbol of eternity, and I found it at an irish site, I saw no problem using it.
I didn't realize so many people were obsessed with demons and the occult etc [I frankly forgot about the fundies here] and couldn't handle it.
And even though you have had ample testimony of the various symbolisms attached by christians to it, I won't use it because you can't see beyond your obsessions. Its the old milk and meat thing.

[jeffpugh]

I know my voice goes unheard a lot, but I'll say it anyways. PLEASE OH PLEASE [spare me. no I'm joking] Read all of the posts before you start spewing words like "where do they get off at accepting symbols?" and "Catholics are moral relativists because they make evil things good as they please". I hope we could all laugh about this argument later over a nice cup of cocoa or something, because it is becoming insane. Because you know budge, you are displaying more satanic symbols than I have ever seen in my life. Are you going to purge your computer monitor and hard drive and ram by fire later? Cause by your standards you have defiled your hardware! Seriously folks. Catholics are not absorbing pagan symbols because we think they are pretty. We do not hunt down pagan symbols just to relativise and mislead souls. What do you people really plan to get out of this argument in the end? Are you really making yourselves more like Christ by flinging dung left and right? Or is this for a trophy for your church communities so you can say "this is the proverbial head of a Catholic on my pike"? Seriously folks. Let us be merry that our Lord promises protection from all evils and just laugh. Laugh because the Devil hates it, for he desires us to bicker and complain about our differences instead of fighting the powers that he has lurking in a spiritual dimension, and not a picture originally created for hope and goodwill.

[Urib2007]

[img]http://www.zonalibre.org/blog/zahir/archives/ying-yang75.jpg[/img]

The yin/yang is often seen at martial arts studios, yet few understand its esoteric meaning. The symbol represents the combining of male and female, the forces of darkness and light; the integreation of God and the Devil.

The satanic, Illuminist doctrine of duality is seen in the concept of ying and yang. These are the two opposites, one light and one dark, yet complementary and co-dependent. The two influences are said to be constantly influencing one another. They represent alchemical polarities, or dialectical opposites. Witchcraft can appreciate the yin and yang and the Illuminist doctrine of "As Above, So Below." Paul Huston, in [i]Mastering Witchcraft[/i], explains the witches' parallel concept of Gnostic duality:

"In the beginning the Great Darkness, Diana, divided herself into two equal and opposite forces, night and day. The night was ruled over by Diana herself as the moon, the day by her alter ego and brother, Lucifer, the Sun."

[img]http://www.stanford.edu/group/falun/eng/images/falun_full.jpg[/img]

Falun Gong is a religious movement in China. With some 100 million adherents worldwide, Falun Gong is a spiritual force to be reckoned with. Its logo is the circle with the yin yang and the swastika (a sun sign) prominently displayed.