What Would You Do?

[alicemary]

Annie,
You know me, I will speak as I see things. Live ins are extremely important. You just can't tell alot about an order by just visiting them casually. You need to sleep there, wake up there, see what the nuns are really like 'behind closed doors'. I know that I have visited convents and thought the sisters are wonderful. We exchanged letters and it was just great. And then you spend a weekend or a week, and the cracks begin to widen.
I think it would be very, very hard to enter a community that only has a small number of older sisters. A person may want to help out, but you are talking about your life here. And your future.
As to entering as a postulant, without a live in, with the idea that it is a better way to do things. Well, that sounds good, but it is not practical. When one enters as a postulant, you hope to stay forever. You go in with the idea you will stay. You give away possesions, sell cars, apartments and homes. You burn your bridges. This is surely the way it has been done for generations, but is it the best way? I dont think so. Even jobs have shadowing...you observe for a day or so to get a better feel. I do notfeel it is pretending, I think it will be what you need it to be. And why not do a three month aspirancy? You are willing to go to Singapore for six months.
Please, I do not want to sound critical, but slow this down a bit!!! Do not run into the first cloister that contacts you because they show an interest. Each cloister is very, very different. Each community lives the life differently. A moderate community may live the life beautifully, even with a modified habit. Be open. The Lord knows where he wants you, but there are always roadblocks, as you well know.
I send my deepest regards to you, and all my prayers.
Alicemary

[cmaD2006]

Hi Annie:

In a way I do agree with Alicemary ... I'm not sure what the length of the visits are, but I do strongly suggest allowing at least two weeks for at least one of the visits, and a second visit should be at least a week long (hopefully longer).

You start to see the "cracks" after a week; the sisters start to let their guard down because (hopefully) you start to be one of them [in a sense].

Granted I do agree with one of your statements too -- you really won't know until you enter for real (as I've experienced). The sisters will keep certain things from you until that point. *BUT* I think its important to have the "live-in" type of experiences too.

Finally -- I'd make a distinction between a live-in requirement of a few weeks to a month, and a 3-month live-in. A 3 month live-in is more like an aspirancy ... and there is a good reason for it. You do get a clearer idea of what religious life is like in that time frame (in that community), but without the expectations of a postulant.

I did do a one month live in with a community early on in my discernment -- and that was enough to decide that the community was not the right fit for me.

God bless you as you continue to discern God's will in your life.

[Totus Tuus]

It sounds like God might be calling you to help with your nephew (maybe even homeschooling him in Singapore ). But it also sounds like your desire to enter a convent sooner than later may be God's will. Not to be overly blunt, but I would say that asking Phatmass is probably not the best idea. Sometimes it happens that people want opinions on these kinds of things when opinions from random people who are discerning is probably not what you really need; it can potential confuse your situation more. Talk this over with your current spiritual director and possibly the vocations directress at one or several of the Carmels you are looking at. I say this for several reasons; first, your s.d. knows you and will be better able to discern God's will for you, and you can both pray about it. Secondly, talk to the vocations directress(es) because they will be able to tell you what the opinion of [i]Carmel[/i] is on this type of situation. They may think "the sooner the better" for you to enter since you are already 54, but they may on the other hand think it is a good idea for you to help your brother out.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1207260' date='Mar 3 2007, 11:29 AM']Annie,
You know me, I will speak as I see things. Live ins are extremely important. You just can't tell alot about an order by just visiting them casually. You need to sleep there, wake up there, see what the nuns are really like 'behind closed doors'. I know that I have visited convents and thought the sisters are wonderful. We exchanged letters and it was just great. And then you spend a weekend or a week, and the cracks begin to widen.
I think it would be very, very hard to enter a community that only has a small number of older sisters. A person may want to help out, but you are talking about your life here. And your future.
As to entering as a postulant, without a live in, with the idea that it is a better way to do things. Well, that sounds good, but it is not practical. When one enters as a postulant, you hope to stay forever. You go in with the idea you will stay. You give away possesions, sell cars, apartments and homes. You burn your bridges. This is surely the way it has been done for generations, but is it the best way? I dont think so. Even jobs have shadowing...you observe for a day or so to get a better feel. I do notfeel it is pretending, I think it will be what you need it to be. And why not do a three month aspirancy? You are willing to go to Singapore for six months.
Please, I do not want to sound critical, but slow this down a bit!!! Do not run into the first cloister that contacts you because they show an interest. Each cloister is very, very different. Each community lives the life differently. A moderate community may live the life beautifully, even with a modified habit. Be open. The Lord knows where he wants you, but there are always roadblocks, as you well know.
I send my deepest regards to you, and all my prayers.
Alicemary[/quote]

As this may be true for some people, many cloistered monasteries do not have a live-in experience and the people who enter are just fine with adjusting to things. You don't always have to live there first temporarily to know that you are called to live there permanently. And keep in mind, postulancy [i]is[/i] a six month- one year "live-in" time, with no strings attached.
You say "the cracks begin to widen"; this could be another way of saying that you can see that the sisters have faults! And there will be suffering in the religious life! That is true in any religious community. You will see that sooner or later whether or not it is before or after you enter
Definitely, live-ins can be a great thing and are often required by a community before postulancy. But they are definitely not the most practical thing for some communities and aren't always necessary for discovering where you are truly called

God bless!

Edited March 3, 2007 by Totus Tuus

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1207388' date='Mar 3 2007, 04:03 PM']As this may be true for some people, many cloistered monasteries do not have a live-in experience and the people who enter are just fine with adjusting to things. You don't always have to live there first temporarily to know that you are called to live there permanently. And keep in mind, postulancy [i]is[/i] a six month- one year "live-in" time, with no strings attached.
You say "the cracks begin to widen"; this could be another way of saying that you can see that the sisters have faults! And there will be suffering in the religious life! That is true in any religious community. You will see that sooner or later whether or not it is before or after you enter
Definitely, live-ins can be a great thing and are often required by a community before postulancy. But they are definitely not the most practical thing for some communities and aren't always necessary for discovering where you are truly called

God bless![/quote]

Once again, thank you all for your opinions. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me because I always like to learn from others and this can only be done through open discussion.

While I understand that a visit is important, I will just explain what the Mother Prioress from Colorado said to me about why they don't do live-in visits. She said that when someone is visiting, all the nuns are super sweet to them because they are a visitor and that is charity and hospitality for a visitor. But a postulant will be treated differently, as part of their formation. Sometimes this might not seem as nice or sweet, but it is necessary for formation. So someone who lived in as a visitor might be very surprised once they actually entered as a postulant to find out that the previously "sweet" nuns didn't now seem quite so sweet. I can understand this because surrendering one's will to that of a superior, and to learn humility, sometimes it hurts and seems harsh. A visitor is not going to be treated this way, but a postulant will.

Anyway, the other objections that people have to entering directly do not really apply to me. I gave up everything years ago in order to be free to do this. I have no possessions apart from an older car that I will give away when I enter. My brother has already taken all of my personal things like photo albums, documents etc for storage. I own very few clothes (one suitcase) and my job is not a career (caregiver). I rent a room, not an apartment. I gave up my career two years ago and took a job as a caregiver just so I would be free to enter a convent when ready. If, for some reason, I have to leave the convent, then I can always work as a caregiver again - nursing homes as desperate for caregivers everywhere. I have enough money to give any convent a dowry, which will be returned to me if I leave.

My spiritual director thinks I have the spiritual maturity to make this decision on my own. I have suggested possible scenarios, and they seem to be positive, so now all I need to do is speak with my brother about his support for my visiting convents even while helping him.

Also, I am not going to leap into the first community that wants me -- I had another phone call today from a Carmel that is only about four hours drive from me!! They have an upper age limit, but want to meet with me anyway, and to judge me as an individual. God has been showering me with acceptance at every turn and this had made me realize that He wants me - but perhaps I need to do this for him first. My brother is a converted Catholic and during this time, he is going to need my spiritual support as well as physical. If I can help him to attend Mass during this time, and to lean on God, then I will feel that I have served both him and God too!

Although I prefer the traditional habit, this will not be a deciding factor for me, unless two communities are both totally equal in my eyes - and then it might matter. What I am really hoping for is to find a place that feels like my spiritual home. In any community there will be nuns who irritate each other and get on each other's nerves. This is part of surrender and humility. But I will not go looking for tests and trials - I am not that strong! lol

I have so much admiration and respect for every community that has contacted me, and for the nuns who silently live their lives of prayer. Today at confession my penance was to offer my next communion for peace in the Middle East. At Mass tonight it felt so good to do this, and it reaffirmed for me how much I love praying for others. I am looking forward to a life of prayer with all my heart. But if I have to wait just a little for God to put me in the right place, that's ok -- He has waited all these years for me to say "yes" to Him!

Anyway, thank you all so much for just listening. Each of us is trying to discern God's Will for us, and just being there, for love and support, is a blessing from God.

Deo gratias.
Annie