Sabbath Keeping

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1205973' date='Feb 28 2007, 08:13 PM']Good call. Especially the last point. Speaking of conspiracies, if The Church was one, then how could we survive over 2000 years? Why would bishops go through torture in the first 300 years for a lie? How could a vast body keep a secret if we come from different perspectives and ideas? Anywho I'll catch up on this thread tomorrow. Going to sing some sacred music. Beautiful treasures of the Church.

God Bless[/quote]
I don't think there is a big conspiracy theory about the Catholic Church.
The real conspiracy started 6,000 years ago with the fall of man. Satan has since wanted to blind the minds of men from teachings like what Genesis 3:15 really says - we're to put the serpent and his seed under our feet, and what Genesis 6:4 really says.

I dare any of you to download a copy of the Jewish Publication Society Old Testament, and read those two scriptures, and then google the second word of Genesis 6:4 and "Serpent Seed".

But none of you are going to do that.

Edited March 3, 2007 by FullTruth

[FullTruth]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1206870' date='Mar 2 2007, 03:33 PM']Making other people work is just as bad as you yourself working.[/quote]
Hmmm...

I don't think keeping or not keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath saves or damns you.

People can choose to do what they will. I choose to obey the seventh day sabbath. If someone works it, that's okay too. God only expects you to obey what he convicts you of.

If you want to work Saturday, that's okay. You're not under the law, but under the law of the Christ. The Law has no effect on you. You don't have to obey it. However, if you love God for his grace, you want to follow the commandments to honour God for what he has done for you.

Following the 10 commandments really doesn't save you. The grace of God saves you.

[quote name='Ephesians 2:7-9']That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.[/quote]

You are saved by grace (unwarrented favour) through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

Obeying the 10 commandents doesn't save you, Christ death on the cross saves us. So if you love God by accepting he loved you first through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, you will show forth that love by obeying the commandments that God gave us.

[Resurrexi]

Let's take a look at the Coouncil of Florence:

[quote name='Concilium Florentinum Oecumenicum']Firmiter credit, profitetur et docet legalia veteris testamenti seu mosaice legis, que dividuntur in ceremonias, sacra sacrificia, sacramenta, quia significandi alicuius futri gratia fuerant instituta, licet divino culti illa etate congruerent, significato per illa Domino nostro Ihesu Christo adveniente cessasse, et novi testamenti sacramenta cepisse. Quemcunque etiam post passionem in legalibus spem ponentem et illis velut ad salutem necessariis se subdentem, quasi Christi fides sine illis salvare non posset, peccasse mortalier. Non tamen negat a Christi passione usque ad promulgatum evangelium illa potuisse servari, dutamen minime ad salutem necessaria crederentur. Sed post promulgatum evangelium sine interitu salutis eterne asserit non posse servari. Omnes ergo post illud tempus circumcisionis et sabbati reliquorumque legalium observatores alienos a Christi fide deuntiat et salutis eterne minime posse esse participes, nisi aliquando ab his erroribus resipiscant. Omnibus igitur, qui Christiano nominegloriantur, precipit omnio, quocunque tempore vel ante vel post baptismum a circumcisione cessandum, quoniam sive quis in ea spem ponat sive non, sine interitu salutis eterne ovservari omnio non potest.[/quote]

Edited March 3, 2007 by StThomasMore

[FullTruth]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1207154' date='Mar 3 2007, 12:54 AM']Let's take a look at the Coouncil of Florence:
Firmiter credit, profitetur et docet legalia veteris testamenti seu mosaice legis, que dividuntur in ceremonias, sacra sacrificia, sacramenta, quia significandi alicuius futri gratia fuerant instituta, licet divino culti illa etate congruerent, significato per illa Domino nostro Ihesu Christo adveniente cessasse, et novi testamenti sacramenta cepisse. Quemcunque etiam post passionem in legalibus spem ponentem et illis velut ad salutem necessariis se subdentem, quasi Christi fides sine illis salvare non posset, peccasse mortalier. Non tamen negat a Christi passione usque ad promulgatum evangelium illa potuisse servari, dutamen minime ad salutem necessaria crederentur. Sed post promulgatum evangelium sine interitu salutis eterne asserit non posse servari. Omnes ergo post illud tempus circumcisionis et sabbati reliquorumque legalium observatores alienos a Christi fide deuntiat et salutis eterne minime posse esse participes, nisi aliquando ab his erroribus resipiscant. Omnibus igitur, qui Christiano nominegloriantur, precipit omnio, quocunque tempore vel ante vel post baptismum a circumcisione cessandum, quoniam sive quis in ea spem ponat sive non, sine interitu salutis eterne ovservari omnio non potest.[/quote]
Yes, Yes, I see the light.

St. Thomas More, you're the most godly person I have ever know.

I can't refute one word.

Wait a minute, I don't understand what was being said.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1207157' date='Mar 3 2007, 01:01 AM']Yes, Yes, I see the light.
I can't refute one word.

Wait a minute, I don't understand what was being said.[/quote]

[Aloysius]

lol!

that basically says that holding on to the abrogated practices of the old law is damnable sin. you would certainly be well advised against it; for the New Law in Christ is incompatible with stagnancy in the abrogated particularities of the old law.

if you wished to remember the seventh day of the first creation, it would not be sinful. but you must remember the day of the ressurection; the seventh day of the new creation; the first day of the renewall of the world; the day on which Jesus rested (the saturday on which He was dead he made no reverence to the sabbath, for the sabbath is of the earth and Jesus was not present on the earth)

your talk of religious spirits is logically flawed. simply because an overly religious mindset can be harmful, does not mean that it is. in fact, it is universally human and good-natured and holy to be bound together in true unity. you have anarchy, your signature testifies to it. God hates anarchy, disorder, and disunity. in shrugging off the spirit of religion, which is in reality the spirit of unity and Christian brotherhood, you have not fought off demons but angels of God. in its stead, you have created an arbitrary concept of unity which is indeed false and untrue.

the rest of the world does not say "I am right and they are wrong" because they are plagued with religious spirits, they say it because they have a fundamentally different opinion and are acknowledging that truth. you acknowledge falsehood by ignoring division and disagreement.

I say to you, "I am right and you are wrong" because I believe something absolutely irreconcilable to your viewpoint. You ought not say to me "that is merely a religious spirit you struggle with, come into the light and ignore our differences completely"... I invite you to say to me "I am right and it is YOU who are wrong!" and then I may have respect for your position. As it stands, I have no respect for your position, as the basis of its defense against attacks is the acknowledgement of a falsehood: namely the falsehood that there are no fundamental important differences in our respective beliefs. It is attractive to you because it is an invincible defense; I may disagree with you as I did at the beginning of this thread... and then you may turn around and deflect everything and say "ahhh... well then you keep sunday and that is interesting! I do not intend any religious bonding with you or anyone else because of my spirit of religious anarchy; you may keep sunday and I'll keep saturday to respect God and it does not even matter if anyone else does it, I do not mind if they pick any other day"... you have an invincible sheild to deflect anything and re-direct it into "I will not contest anything you say other than that you should not hold to it in the way you do, for that is some demonic religious spirit!"

There is no dialogue, logic, or human communion or unity when such a thing exists. You can rebuild the tower of babel with the support beams of everyone 'rejecting religious spirits'... but everyone will still speak different languages, have different beliefs, and not have unity.

what you have clearly done is not defeat satanic deception, but given up the human struggle for union with each other and God by succumbing to one of satan's biggest deceptions: that unity can be had if we simply ignore disunity and disagreements.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1207200' date='Mar 3 2007, 05:07 AM']lol!

that basically says that holding on to the abrogated practices of the old law is damnable sin. you would certainly be well advised against it; for the New Law in Christ is incompatible with stagnancy in the abrogated particularities of the old law.

if you wished to remember the seventh day of the first creation, it would not be sinful. but you must remember the day of the ressurection; the seventh day of the new creation; the first day of the renewall of the world; the day on which Jesus rested (the saturday on which He was dead he made no reverence to the sabbath, for the sabbath is of the earth and Jesus was not present on the earth)

your talk of religious spirits is logically flawed. simply because an overly religious mindset can be harmful, does not mean that it is. in fact, it is universally human and good-natured and holy to be bound together in true unity. you have anarchy, your signature testifies to it. God hates anarchy, disorder, and disunity. in shrugging off the spirit of religion, which is in reality the spirit of unity and Christian brotherhood, you have not fought off demons but angels of God. in its stead, you have created an arbitrary concept of unity which is indeed false and untrue.

the rest of the world does not say "I am right and they are wrong" because they are plagued with religious spirits, they say it because they have a fundamentally different opinion and are acknowledging that truth. you acknowledge falsehood by ignoring division and disagreement.

I say to you, "I am right and you are wrong" because I believe something absolutely irreconcilable to your viewpoint. You ought not say to me "that is merely a religious spirit you struggle with, come into the light and ignore our differences completely"... I invite you to say to me "I am right and it is YOU who are wrong!" and then I may have respect for your position. As it stands, I have no respect for your position, as the basis of its defense against attacks is the acknowledgement of a falsehood: namely the falsehood that there are no fundamental important differences in our respective beliefs. It is attractive to you because it is an invincible defense; I may disagree with you as I did at the beginning of this thread... and then you may turn around and deflect everything and say "ahhh... well then you keep sunday and that is interesting! I do not intend any religious bonding with you or anyone else because of my spirit of religious anarchy; you may keep sunday and I'll keep saturday to respect God and it does not even matter if anyone else does it, I do not mind if they pick any other day"... you have an invincible sheild to deflect anything and re-direct it into "I will not contest anything you say other than that you should not hold to it in the way you do, for that is some demonic religious spirit!"

There is no dialogue, logic, or human communion or unity when such a thing exists. You can rebuild the tower of babel with the support beams of everyone 'rejecting religious spirits'... but everyone will still speak different languages, have different beliefs, and not have unity.

what you have clearly done is not defeat satanic deception, but given up the human struggle for union with each other and God by succumbing to one of satan's biggest deceptions: that unity can be had if we simply ignore disunity and disagreements.[/quote]
I'm sorry you feel that way.

Spirit of religious anarchy eh. I like that. I recognize we need order, and that order should come from God, and not man.

I guess you're a follower of this statment,

95 per cent of human beings need to be told what to think and how to behave. The other 5 per cent decide what we should think and how we should behave.

All we need is God's word and God's spirit. You can consider me lead by the Devil, that's okay. You still love Jesus Christ, as I do, and we both praise him for our salvation. There's something universal about that.

Or are you the person who wants to return back to 400 a.d. where people were forced to convert to the Roman Catholic Faith at sword point?

[Mr.Cat]

What about my post?

Maybe no one saw my post...

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1205915' date='Feb 28 2007, 06:18 PM']The Sabbath of the Old Law was centering on the day of rest of the Almighty after the creation of the world being the centering pivot of their liturgy. In the New Law the centering pivot is the day that our Blessed Lord rose from the Dead and the Decent of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles, thus the most important day in the New Law is Sunday. Further, we find that even in the Old Testament that God is displeased by the Sabbath of the Jews then Saint Paul the Apostle spoke that what was in the Old Law is merely a shadow what was to come in Christ.

In addition to the fact that in the Apocalypse of Saint John the Apostle (The Book of Revelation) the writer sees the Heavenly Liturgy is being held on a Sunday. With the coming of a New Law, New Priesthood, it would make perfect sense to have a new Sabbath to fulfill the old. Moreover, Saint Paul the Apostle tells the early Christians to celebrate their liturgy on Sunday rather on Saturday.In addition we are to hold to the Oral Traditions passed on in Apostolic Tradition that holds that the Sabbath has been transferred to Sunday for the innumerable reasons that could be named. Along with the fact that whatever the Church makes bound on Earth will also be bound in Heaven as our Blessed Lord assured. Since Christ is the true Messiah and the fulfiller of the Old Law all must obey what He established and what came about by Him. For His wonders works written of in the Scriptures neither His Friends or Enemies would of accepted further He always did what He did in the open public for all to see, then further if what He did never happened they would simply deny they happened instead of arguing that demons did the works or other silly notions.[/quote]
One, I didn't say I wasn't going to worship on Sunday either. I'm just going to really enjoy the Seventh day as well. I agree it is good to to good during the Sabbath day.

Right now, I am not really finding God pressing me to worship him with any church.

Much of the law is a shadow of Christ. But if you want to go down that road, you might not like the way the Tabernacle was built.

Alter first, Washing second, and the Mercy seat third.

Repentance first, Baptism second, and the infilling of the holy ghost third. Not - Baptism first, Repentance second, and the infilling of the holy ghost third.

It says the Lord's day. That could have been Wednesday for all we know, because the Lord is in all days. And show me where the Apostle Paul said we should worship on Sunday. I never read that. I may have forgotten, but point it out.

But when there are books that say both were celebrated, including a book that a Rev recommended, I think the Apostles were for both. The Sabbath was a day of rest, and Sunday was to go out and evanglize and worship.

But I think the Apostles did that every day. They always came together, every single day, and fellowshipped with each other, worshipping God, and enjoying the material blessings and fellowship that God gave them with each other.

[quote name='Acts 2:42-47']And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. And they, continuing [b]daily[/b] with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.[/quote]

Does your church do that?

I don't find many churches - any in fact - who daily go to the temple to worship and fellowship with each other.

That is why there is no move of God in our world in this generation, because 'we don't have the time to do that'.

Edited March 3, 2007 by FullTruth

[Mr.Cat]

[quote]Isaias 1:13
"Offer sacrifice no more in vain: incense is an abomination to me. The new moons, [b]and the sabbaths[/b], [b]and other festivals I will not abide[/b], [b][u]your assemblies are wicked[/u][/b]."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/27001.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/27001.htm[/url][/quote]Is not the Sabbath that our God speaks about here the Old Covenant Sabbath? God calls the assemblies that gather together on the seventh day “wicked.” This certainly shows a displeasure of God about the seventh day so could you please explain why God seems so upset about something you claim He so clearly decreed?[quote][b]Colossians 2:16-17[/b]
"Let no man therefore [b]judge you [/b][u]in meat or in drink[/u], or [u][b]in respect of a festival day[/b][/u], or [u][b]of the new moon[/b][/u], or of [u][b]the sabbaths[/b][/u], Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/58002.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/58002.htm[/url][/quote]
This verse refers to meat and drink, this verse clearly refers to Holy Communion for it is speaking of a liturgical celebration. The meat is our Lord’s true body and the drink is our Lord’s true blood.

Saint Paul the Apostle here clearly is referring to what happened in the Old Testament but He then explains that this is merely a shadow meaning that what was to come in Christ (the Sabbath being the first day of the week) was to please God more. For it would be the supreme sacrifice of the mass being offered and instead of being based on creation it is now based on redemption for it is based on the day our Lord resurrected from the Dead and the day the Holy Spirit came upon the Apostles and Mary.[quote][b]Hebrews 4:8-9[/b]
"For if Jesus had given them rest, he would never have afterwards spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a day of rest for the people of God."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/65004.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/65004.htm[/url][/quote]The Sabbath is the day of rest for the Jewish People but then why does our Blessed Lord “spoken of another day.” The Scriptures are right here showing that our Blessed Lord taught that there would be a new Sabbath Day to fulfill the old. This day of rest and this Sabbath day that is kept being eluded to is the Sunday Sabbath as explained in the previous post. To claim that our Blessed Lord is speaking of Saturday still is ludicrous and entirely anti-New Testament.[quote][b]Acts of the Apostles 20:7[/b]
"And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, being to depart on the morrow: and he continued his speech until midnight."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/51020.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/51020.htm[/url][/quote]For in Acts of the Apostles Saint Luke clearly calls “the first day of the week” the new Sabbath for it is the day the people are gathering to worship instead of Saturday. It is no longer the last day of the week but rather the first day of the week. For as Saint Paul wrote before to the people we ought not to be judged on our meat and drink it says here that Saint Paul breaks bread (offering the Holy Mass and Holy Communion). It says that he continued his speeches till midnight meaning that the celebration started on Sunday and ending on Sunday, this shows a new law in effect. There are many other verses like this one explaining this new Sabbath but one clearly from the previous scripture verse cannot claim that the Sabbath is still Saturday so it is more reasonable in light of the Sacred Scripture to say that Sunday is the new Sabbath.[quote][b]2 Thessalonians 2:14[/b]
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/60002.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/60002.htm[/url][/quote]Further we see Saint Paul the Apostle telling us to obey the oral traditions of the Church by saying however we learn them either by word or by letter. This also if we go into the scriptures refers not only to the writings of the Bible but the whole of writings from those Christians who had authority in teaching which we see from the scriptures is passed on through Apostolic Succession. So the early Church Fathers telling us as early as the year 90 that the new Sabbath is Sunday we must obey.[quote][b]Acts of the Apostles 2:42-47[/b]
"And they were persevering in the doctrine of the apostles, and in the communication of the breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: many wonders also and signs were done by the apostles in Jerusalem, and there was great fear in all. And all they that believed, were together, and had all things common. Their possessions and goods they sold, and divided them to all, according as every one had need. And continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they took their meat with gladness and simplicity of heart; Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord increased daily together such as should be saved."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/51002.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/51002.htm[/url][/quote]It says they were preserving in the Doctrines of the Apostles, which Saint Paul teaches the New Sabbath is Sunday or the first day of the week. They then again make the phrase, “breaking bread” speaking of the Holy Mass and Communion. For in the verse they speaking of breaking bread house to house for in the early Church there were no official churches built yet so they celebrated in local homes, this was later replaced under progression to higher piety and increase of doctrinal understanding. It says they took their “meat” referring to the Lord’s body and blood praising God. This is clearly the Catholic Mass. But to let you be aware, the Catholic Church does say Holy Mass daily but there is no word of “fellowship” here but rather they are focusing on the breaking of bread, the taking of the meat, and going with the doctrine of the Apostles.

Edited March 3, 2007 by Mr.CatholicCat

[Budge]

[quote]'ve have made a major decision.

If God will use 4 scriptures in Exodus 20 to describe the Sabbath day, the Sabbath day must be important to God, so I have decided to become a 'Heretic' Sabbath Keeper!

I'm going to keep the Sabbath for the rest of my life. I'm not going to day any work from Friday on sunset to Saturday on sunset. I'm going to become a Sabbath Keeper, because it's important to God! Yes, I'm only going to read my Bible, pray, play some video games and enjoy myself every Friday night to Saturday night. And yes, lots of eating! Time to celebrate the day that God gave us to rest. WOOT!

Who else wants to take up that challange and become Sabbath Keepers yourselves?[/quote]

sounds like you are trying to work your way to salvation.

and have bought into some seventh day adventist or other deceptions.

are you going to take it as far as the Orthodox Jews where you dont drive or even switch a light switch or turn on the oven?

Im a fundie Christian btw NOT Catholic.

Too bad none of the Catholics here can point out to you that your biggest mistake is seeking salvation via work.

Lots of eating, oh boy!

Cant you go to a friday night Lenten fish all you can eat or something?

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Budge' post='1207337' date='Mar 3 2007, 05:16 PM']sounds like you are trying to work your way to salvation.

and have bought into some seventh day adventist or other deceptions.

are you going to take it as far as the Orthodox Jews where you dont drive or even switch a light switch or turn on the oven?

Im a fundie Christian btw NOT Catholic.

Too bad none of the Catholics here can point out to you that your biggest mistake is seeking salvation via work.

Lots of eating, oh boy!

Cant you go to a friday night Lenten fish all you can eat or something?[/quote]

Budge has a good point here... like I said earlier, FullTruth, are you going to take it as far as following the traditions (not "kindling fire" that is, not turning on lights, etc).

@Budge: what does
[quote name='Budge' post='1207337' date='Mar 3 2007, 05:16 PM']Lots of eating, oh boy!

Cant you go to a friday night Lenten fish all you can eat or something?[/quote]
mean?

[Budge]

[quote]
Budge has a good point here... like I said earlier, FullTruth, are you going to take it as far as following the traditions (not "kindling fire" that is, not turning on lights, etc).
[/quote]Yeah I want to see how far it will go?
[quote]

@Budge: what does
QUOTE(Budge @ Mar 3 2007, 05:16 PM) *
Lots of eating, oh boy!

Cant you go to a friday night Lenten fish all you can eat or something?

mean?[/quote]

Oh just if he chows down what does it matter what day it is?

I go along with this teaching...
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

This is one verse someone ought to print out in giant block letters and send to the seventh day adventist headquarters...

[FullTruth]

Here's the thing.

Acts 2 proclaims every single day is the Sabbath really.

[quote name='Acts 2:42-47']And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. And they, continuing [b]daily[/b] with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.[/quote]

God expects us to come together every single day in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house.


It's like Thithing.

Old Testament - it's a tenth. New Testament - God expects we to put everything we are into his kingdom, money, soul, strength, heart, mind - we are to withhold nothing.

Old Testament - One Day. New Testament - EVERY DAY!

Does your church have prayer, fellowship and teaching every single day? That's what God wants of us, for if we love him, we will give it all to him.

And I'm not a part of any religion of men, btw. I'm just a God Chaser.

Edited March 3, 2007 by FullTruth

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1207391' date='Mar 3 2007, 05:14 PM']Does your church have prayer, fellowship and teaching every single day?[/quote]
Yes. It's called daily Mass.