Sabbath Keeping

[Mr.Cat]

[quote][b]Isaias 1:13[/b]
"Offer sacrifice no more in vain: incense is an abomination to me. The new moons, and the sabbaths, and other festivals I will not abide, your assemblies are wicked."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/27001.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/27001.htm[/url][/quote][quote][b]Colossians 2:16-17[/b]
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths, Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/58002.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/58002.htm[/url][/quote][quote][b]Hebrews 4:8-9[/b]
"For if Jesus had given them rest, he would never have afterwards spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a day of rest for the people of God."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/65004.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/65004.htm[/url][/quote]The Sabbath of the Old Law was centering on the day of rest of the Almighty after the creation of the world being the centering pivot of their liturgy. In the New Law the centering pivot is the day that our Blessed Lord rose from the Dead and the Decent of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles, thus the most important day in the New Law is Sunday. Further, we find that even in the Old Testament that God is displeased by the Sabbath of the Jews then Saint Paul the Apostle spoke that what was in the Old Law is merely a shadow what was to come in Christ.

In addition to the fact that in the Apocalypse of Saint John the Apostle (The Book of Revelation) the writer sees the Heavenly Liturgy is being held on a Sunday. With the coming of a New Law, New Priesthood, it would make perfect sense to have a new Sabbath to fulfill the old. Moreover, Saint Paul the Apostle tells the early Christians to celebrate their liturgy on Sunday rather on Saturday.[quote][b]Acts of the Apostles 20:7[/b]
"And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, being to depart on the morrow: and he continued his speech until midnight."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/51020.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/51020.htm[/url][/quote]In addition we are to hold to the Oral Traditions passed on in Apostolic Tradition that holds that the Sabbath has been transferred to Sunday for the innumerable reasons that could be named. Along with the fact that whatever the Church makes bound on Earth will also be bound in Heaven as our Blessed Lord assured. [quote][b]2 Thessalonians 2:14[/b]
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/60002.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/60002.htm[/url][/quote][quote][b]Matthew 16:19[/b]
"And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/47016.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/47016.htm[/url][/quote]Since Christ is the true Messiah and the fulfiller of the Old Law all must obey what He established and what came about by Him. For His wonders works written of in the Scriptures neither His Friends or Enemies would of accepted further He always did what He did in the open public for all to see, then further if what He did never happened they would simply deny they happened instead of arguing that demons did the works or other silly notions.

[Urib2007]

Welcome back, Full Truth. It's good to see you're back in action with Phatmass. Regarding your post...

Jesus gave this statement in verse 17 of Matthew chapter 5, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."
Do you remember what He did soon after? He was healing on the Sabbath and He didn't wash His hands before eating. When the Pharisses found out about this, they immediately began criticizing Jesus Christ. The Pharisses couldn't understand why on earth Jesus wasn't obeying the law. Jesus obviously didn't fulfill that part. If you look in Jeremiah 31:33-34, you'll read this:

[b]"But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL; after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying know the Lord; for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."[/b]

Jeremiah also educated us regarding the [b]circumcision of the heart.[/b] Here you begin to notice that God is not interested so much in the outward of keeping all of His rules and regulations of the Old Testament laws, but the law that is written in our own hearts. When God's in our heart, we then will have that inward desire of wanting to be holy and righteous. That is why the Lord Jesus Christ said this:

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment."—Mark 12:30

This commandment deals with men/women and their Creator, God. If you love God with all of your heart, you'll naturally want to follow His laws. The law cannot give eternal life, but the Holy Spirit can.
Grace is much more than just unworthy and unmerited favor and Paul spoke of this in Romans 6-8.

1) Freedom from sin's power
2) The law and sin
3) Life in the Spirt

The law of the OT cannot save us if we're weak in the flesh. God sent Jesus to condemn the sin in order for us to be able to walk in the spirit. I was struggling with this issue because of Matthew 5:17. I felt like I had to obey the laws of the OT, but what I learned is if Yahweh speaks to you in the Spirit convicting your heart about whether or not you need to give up pork, then you listen to whatever He says. If you feel guilty eating pork then don't eat it. I highly doubt God will condemn you for eating pork if you don't feel guilty about it. God wants us to follow Him and worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. That's why Jesus tells the Pharisses that man wasn't created for the sabbath, but that the sabbah was created for the man.

Jesus' death on the cross eliminated the laws of offense, however, that doesn't mean we can act unholy. Jesus also went further than the law in some matters, such as the one regarding lust. The law said: "Thou shalt not commit adultery." Well, Jesus said that if a man looks at a woman with lustful eyes, he has already committed adultery with her in his heart. God judges one's heart, not the action and not the keeping of the rules.

When you see in the Bible where it speaks of the House of Israel or the Whole House of Israel, Yahweh is speaking about the church, the entire body of true believers.
So, the whole purpose of the law was to bring Yeshua, so that Christ can circumcise our heart and create in us a new heart and a new life. With this the plan of God is complete.

Edited February 28, 2007 by Urib2007

[FullTruth]

Wow. all of this for one stance.

Is Keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath so wrong?

I definitely don't think eating pork damns you. It isn't what goes in your mouth that defiles you, but what comes out.

But on the Passover, I am definitely looking forward to observing it, as well as Ramandan this year. I can't wait to experience all God has to offer.

I can see many of you are very zealous for your religion. I don't ask you to convert to anything.

I use to feel zealous for religion too. My religion and my ideals were the truth and you must obey them or you're damned. I don't see that anymore. No, I don't want any of you to follow what I want to follow. I want to chase after God and God alone. I want God to guide me and direct me. You must work out your salvation with fear and trembling, just like I must work out my salvation with fear and trembling.

The Holy Ghost can work in your lives to create salvation in your lives. I don't want to go to any church, because every church is ruled over by a Satanic Spirit. It teaches everybody that their religion is the right religion and all others are wrong. Everybody who acts differently than your religion must be decieved and they are going to Hell.

But the church Jesus Christ purchased with his blood, who calls out on his name to cast out those demons in them, can live outside this.

I love all of you. You love Jesus Christ. He is smiling down on you, and all those who love him.

[cmotherofpirl]

You forget Jesus Christ founded a Church that is the pillar and foundation of truth. You reject the Church he founded , are you not rejecting Him as well?

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1205948' date='Feb 28 2007, 07:35 PM']Welcome back, Full Truth. It's good to see you're back in action with Phatmass. Regarding your post...

Jesus gave this statement in verse 17 of Matthew chapter 5, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."
Do you remember what He did soon after? He was healing on the Sabbath and He didn't wash His hands before eating. When the Pharisses found out about this, they immediately began criticizing Jesus Christ. The Pharisses couldn't understand why on earth Jesus wasn't obeying the law. Jesus obviously didn't fulfill that part. If you look in Jeremiah 31:33-34, you'll read this:

[b]"But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL; after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying know the Lord; for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."[/b]

Jeremiah also educated us regarding the [b]circumcision of the heart.[/b] Here you begin to notice that God is not interested so much in the outward of keeping all of His rules and regulations of the Old Testament laws, but the law that is written in our own hearts. When God's in our heart, we then will have that inward desire of wanting to be holy and righteous. That is why the Lord Jesus Christ said this:

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment."—Mark 12:30

This commandment deals with men/women and their Creator, God. If you love God with all of your heart, you'll naturally want to follow His laws. The law cannot give eternal life, but the Holy Spirit can.
Grace is much more than just unworthy and unmerited favor and Paul spoke of this in Romans 6-8.

1) Freedom from sin's power
2) The law and sin
3) Life in the Spirt

The law of the OT cannot save us if we're weak in the flesh. God sent Jesus to condemn the sin in order for us to be able to walk in the spirit. I was struggling with this issue because of Matthew 5:17. I felt like I had to obey the laws of the OT, but what I learned is if Yahweh speaks to you in the Spirit convicting your heart about whether or not you need to give up pork, then you listen to whatever He says. If you feel guilty eating pork then don't eat it. I highly doubt God will condemn you for eating pork if you don't feel guilty about it. God wants us to follow Him and worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. That's why Jesus tells the Pharisses that man wasn't created for the sabbath, but that the sabbah was created for the man.

Jesus' death on the cross eliminated the laws of offense, however, that doesn't mean we can act unholy. Jesus also went further than the law in some matters, such as the one regarding lust. The law said: "Thou shalt not commit adultery." Well, Jesus said that if a man looks at a woman with lustful eyes, he has already committed adultery with her in his heart. God judges one's heart, not the action and not the keeping of the rules.

When you see in the Bible where it speaks of the House of Israel or the Whole House of Israel, Yahweh is speaking about the church, the entire body of true believers.
So, the whole purpose of the law was to bring Yeshua, so that Christ can circumcise our heart and create in us a new heart and a new life. With this the plan of God is complete.[/quote]

Well said.

I'm not actually doing this to obey the law, but I want to see all that God has to offer.

I'm not on the - you must obey this or that to be saved. I just want to honour God by honouring his law when it comes to the seventh day. I love God so much. He has been very gracious to me, for all the things he has delivered me from.

I've had to fight so many strong religious spirits in the name of Jesus Christ. And God has delivered me from them.

[cmotherofpirl]

It is good to honor God at all times.
Still Christianity has always honored Him on Sunday, but that is you choice.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1205952' date='Feb 28 2007, 07:45 PM']You forget Jesus Christ founded a Church that is the pillar and foundation of truth. You reject the Church he founded , are you not rejecting Him as well?[/quote]

How do you define the church Jesus Christ founded?

I consider it the believers who cast out demons, lay on hands to heal people, and speak in new tongues.

There are many in the Catholic Church who aren't Christian, and many who are. There are many who are more consumed by religious spirits in them, and some who truly love Jesus Christ.

Don't be fooled by religious spirits who tell you your 'Religion' is THE ONE AND ONLY CHURCH. I fell for that demon, who said - did not God say. . .

You don't have to go to church to live a life of faith in God. You only have to believe, be baptized and filled with the holy ghost.

[jeffpugh]

FullTruth,
This is a lot of good stuff... If I may be so bold to add my opinion, I must say pray about it and hang tight. Read the scriptures with sensitivity and openness. Especially the scriptures that are cited by the Phatmassers. Also, I want to point out that God is not 'Divided in 3 persons' as you have stated, but is "United in 3 Persons", in which the Father and the Son give each other themselves in love and the Spirit outpoors from the love (hopefully I've stated that correctly). The best image of that love is on the Cross, and is also reflected in marriage. Anywho that might be a bit of a tangent but keep in there. You are in my prayers.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1205957' date='Feb 28 2007, 07:50 PM']It is good to honor God at all times.
Still Christianity has always honored Him on Sunday, but that is you choice. [/quote]
Now that sounds like a really Christian response. You sense that I am not trying to reform the Catholic Church, but I choose to honour God in a different way.

You don't have to be just like everybody else to honour God. I am definitely not condemning anybody for going to any church, or following one way or the other. Just don't be consumed by the religious thoughts of demons. God wants us to live 'religiously' honouring him. But he doesn't want us to strike out to each other.

One person goes one way, and another person goes another way, and the third person goes another way - working out their own salvation with fear and trembling before the Holy one of Israel.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1205961' date='Feb 28 2007, 07:54 PM']How do you define the church Jesus Christ founded?

I consider it the believers who cast out demons, lay on hands to heal people, and speak in new tongues.

There are many in the Catholic Church who aren't Christian, and many who are. There are many who are more consumed by religious spirits in them, and some who truly love Jesus Christ.

Don't be fooled by religious spirits who tell you your 'Religion' is THE ONE AND ONLY CHURCH. I fell for that demon, who said - did not God say. . .

You don't have to go to church to live a life of faith in God. You only have to believe, be baptized and filled with the holy ghost.[/quote]

Jesus only founded one Chrurch in 33 AD.
Acts called us christians.
Ignatius of Antioch in AD97 referred to us as "catholic" meaning universal.

There are many communities that refer to themselves as christian, but the only groups that are "churches" descended in a direct line from the Apostles are catholics, orthodox, and maybe anglicans. And while you may think there is a big conspiracy to make all religions fight each other, the actual conspiracy is to make all religions equal and therefore irrelevant, and man a mere aninmal that can be used and abused for any purpose.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1205962' date='Feb 28 2007, 07:55 PM']FullTruth,
This is a lot of good stuff... If I may be so bold to add my opinion, I must say pray about it and hang tight. Read the scriptures with sensitivity and openness. Especially the scriptures that are cited by the Phatmassers. Also, I want to point out that God is not 'Divided in 3 persons' as you have stated, but is "United in 3 Persons", in which the Father and the Son give each other themselves in love and the Spirit outpoors from the love (hopefully I've stated that correctly). The best image of that love is on the Cross, and is also reflected in marriage. Anywho that might be a bit of a tangent but keep in there. You are in my prayers.[/quote]

You will also be in my prayers Music Man.

I know there are three in heaven. But I see one person in the three. I'm not going to go into that. God uses the language of he, him, his, me, my, mine, and I so much in scripture that he has no problem calling himself a single person in scripture. But this is not the place to go on about that here.

I wanted to check scripture out by looking at the day Jesus died, but thank you all for the scriptures for me to read. Still, if death equals rest in peace and Jesus was dead on the Sabbath Day - therefore he was resting, and alive to start Christanity on the first day, it still shows a forshadowing that the day of rest that God had decided upon showed his son would die on the same day - therefore marking the day of rest. Even in death Jesus obeyed the Seventh Day Sabbath.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1205967' date='Feb 28 2007, 08:03 PM']Jesus only founded one Chrurch in 33 AD.
Acts called us christians.
Ignatius of Antioch in AD97 referred to us as "catholic" meaning universal.

There are many communities that refer to themselves as christian, but the only groups that are "churches" descended in a direct line from the Apostles are catholics, orthodox, and maybe anglicans. And while you may think there is a big conspiracy to make all religions fight each other, the actual conspiracy is to make all religions equal and therefore irrelevant, and man a mere aninmal that can be used and abused for any purpose.[/quote]

Good call. Especially the last point. Speaking of conspiracies, if The Church was one, then how could we survive over 2000 years? Why would bishops go through torture in the first 300 years for a lie? How could a vast body keep a secret if we come from different perspectives and ideas? Anywho I'll catch up on this thread tomorrow. Going to sing some sacred music. Beautiful treasures of the Church.

God Bless

[FullTruth]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1205967' date='Feb 28 2007, 08:03 PM']Jesus only founded one Chrurch in 33 AD.
Acts called us christians.
Ignatius of Antioch in AD97 referred to us as "catholic" meaning universal.

There are many communities that refer to themselves as christian, but the only groups that are "churches" descended in a direct line from the Apostles are catholics, orthodox, and maybe anglicans. And while you may think there is a big conspiracy to make all religions fight each other, the actual conspiracy is to make all religions equal and therefore irrelevant, and man a mere aninmal that can be used and abused for any purpose.[/quote]
Churches are not organizations. Churches are the body of believers. Everybody wants to say that their Organization is the church Jesus Christ founded. But God says you can't go to the right of left of the Bible, and in today's society, every single Religious organization in the world has gone to the right or left, even Catholics. But the believers will not go to the right or left.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1205967' date='Feb 28 2007, 08:03 PM']Jesus only founded one Chrurch in 33 AD.
Acts called us christians.
Ignatius of Antioch in AD97 referred to us as "catholic" meaning universal.

There are many communities that refer to themselves as christian, but the only groups that are "churches" descended in a direct line from the Apostles are catholics, orthodox, and maybe anglicans. And while you may think there is a big conspiracy to make all religions fight each other, the actual conspiracy is to make all religions equal and therefore irrelevant, and man a mere aninmal that can be used and abused for any purpose.[/quote]
The real conspiracy is the 6,000 year old conspiracy to hide the seed of the serpent so they can rule over the seed of the woman. They're everywhere, and they control all religions, but one.

But I won't get into Genesis 6, Solomon's Mistake, and the real meaning of the coming of the son of man.

I know the strength of religious demons, and what they can do. While I was battling my religious demon, it got so bad I couldn't sleep or eat for days while I was fighting it. Now that I am free of it, I can see clearly that there are many religious demons in the world, and they want to convince you that you belong to the right way of life, and that all other people are wrong.

Everything is a religion, but there is only one religion that is the truth, and that is the religion YHWH gave us through Yeshua to cast out demons out of ourselves, to heal by laying on of hands, and to speak with new tongues.

I do recommend this freedom. You all love Jesus Christ, and he sees you and smiles and loves all of you, as he loves Protestants and all those who love him and call out on his name. Don't get so hung up by the religion to be blinded by it.

[N/A Gone]

No love/response for my post?>


Oh, I dont know how educated you are on patristics, but the early christians actually did both. Worship saturday in the temple and then sunday in mass. Mike Aquilina speaks about this in a very nice read

[url="http://www.amazon.com/Mass-Early-Christians-Mike-Aquilina/dp/0879739428/sr=8-4/qid=1172713801/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4/102-2560565-2007331?ie=UTF8&s=books"]http://www.amazon.com/Mass-Early-Christian...TF8&s=books[/url]