Truth Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Is that your defense? Crying out "it is from a catholic author"? Let us look at a convert writter for a minunte. There was this man named Patrick Madrid, and he spent many years trying to prove that the Catholic church is wrong. He could not find a flaw on the church. He found supporting evidence that the Church was built by Christ. He then converted. Do you see where I am going with this? If a person ends up studying Catholic and writes about it...it is more than likely they will convert. Is he not claiming to be Catholic? Convert are the worse because they were so weak in faith to end with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confessionator741 Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Try talking to God he is not to busy. Use Jesus he is you main line. If you want to hear what God have to say use the Scripture, he is talking to you there! Mary don't have the number, she too only had a calling card. This is not to be hard but to be truthful. If you are going to attack mary, LEAVE... If you dont believe in the extreme importance of mary (that should be, but isnt) in ALL Christian faith, then look at the wedding feast at cana (for starters). Mary directed her Son, the Son of God, to do things, namely the water into wine... If Jesus had enough respect for his mother to follow her directives, how much more should be respect his mother? Even at the crucifixion, Jesus tells Mary to behold her son, and john to behold his mother... Jesus gave Mary the Chruch, and gave the church, mary to be their mother... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confessionator741 Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Is he not claiming to be Catholic? Convert are the worse because they were so weak in faith to end with. Converts? Converts are the best because they finally realized that theres something bigger then themselves.... I have a little theory on this whole...chruch stuff... people often times refer to Catholics that dont beleive in all the the doctrines of the Catholic Church as Cafeteria Catholics.... but i looked into it and decided for myself that we are all catholic, EVERYBODY in the world, for this was the Chruch that Christ founded. Those that are the true cafeteria Catholics are those of other denominations, they choose to pick and choose what it was that they believe in. Isnt it odd that you use our bible, minus books? or how you use set ups of Chrurhes? Isnt odd that you you can do the stuff you do and call it completely your own? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TABBY Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Is he not claiming to be Catholic? Convert are the worse because they were so weak in faith to end with. LOL LOL...you are funny. converts are the best, because their study. If you even bothered reading what I even said (it doesnt seem like it) is that a person who was a protestant studied and tried to prove Catholic was wrong....but he couldnt, and found solid evidence that catholic church is the same church Christ built. I am not speaking about some weakling who just happened to fall into the Church of Christ (those just luck out that they fell into the church that Christ built)....I am speaking about ones who have studied the church and church history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siebersusi Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 larry, i posted this same info in another thread, but i provide it here again just for you, so that you will not lose it in the shuffle. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Larry, a long time ago, in another thread, i posted my proof that the Early Church is the Catholic Church, and you never responded to it, despite my frequent reminders. i will post it yet again, b/c i am sincerely interested in discovering how a person can be confronted w/ the following information and still insist that the early Church is not the Catholic Church. below you will find testimony from the earliest christians which reveals that they held distinctly Catholic beliefs. Does YOUR church believe in these? (each link will take u to a page w/ the early church testimony i am referring to) --80 AD, Apostolic Tradition upheld --80 AD, belief in Apostolic Succession --80 AD, Authority of the Pope upheld --200 AD, belief in Peter as the First Pope --200 AD, belief in Peter's Primacy among the Apostles --189 AD, belief that the Pope was Peter's Successor --80 AD, belief in the Intercession of Saints --120 AD, Mary's Perpetual Virginity upheld --189 AD, belief in Mary as the Mother of God --110 AD, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is upheld larry, pay particular attention to the following: --74 AD, belief that Grace is Received through Baptism --151 AD, belief that we are "Born Again" in Baptism --189 AD, the legitimacy of Infant Baptism is upheld --70 AD, Baptism is performed with the Trinitarian Formula --80 AD, the Necessity of Baptism is upheld now, on to a few more: --160 AD, belief in Purgatory --70 AD, Christians worship on Sunday --110 AD, even the early Christians knew their Church was the Catholic Church if you would like even MORE proof that the early Church is the Catholic Church, then you can go here or here. is this enough proof, Larry? Do you believe in all of those things? the early Church sure did............as do Catholics today. How could any other conclusion be drawn besides the one that Dave and I have been fighting to prove to you? The early Church believed what only the Catholic Church beleives today. To me that says that the Early Church is the Catholic Church. Larry, i anxiously await your attempt to reconile this information both w/ ur beleif system and w/ ur misconceptions about Catholicism. Good Luck and God Bless You in your search for Truth, phatcatholic The Blessed Mother intercessed for us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 I didn't see any scripture to support anything that you say about the Cc. You can't go anywhere in scripture and support the claims you make about the Cc, but you can very well support the CC. http://www.scripturecatholic.com is a start. But I'll bet that you'll say (or someone else) that these interpretations are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TABBY Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 http://www.scripturecatholic.com is a start. But I'll bet that you'll say (or someone else) that these interpretations are wrong. If they do, then they are in denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 If they do, then they are in denial. this helps nothing tabby. and denial of what? what you believe the truth is? are you infallible now? If you accept all of them without question you are in denial of the fallibility of man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TABBY Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 (edited) this helps nothing tabby. and denial of what? what you believe the truth is? are you infallible now? If you accept all of them without question you are in denial of the fallibility of man. are you infallible now? No, but the Pope IS? :P Edited January 25, 2004 by TABBY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 No, but the Pope IS? well according to your infallible priests and infallible pope he is infallible. I have another comparison A man says he is a god and always right. Therefore by Catholic Church logic he must be. correct? I prefer to study what we can be sure of - Scripture, and attempt to find the best redaction of history as possible and see what it concludes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TABBY Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 well according to your infallible priests and infallible pope he is infallible. Yep. I have another comparison A man says he is a god and always right. Therefore by Catholic Church logic he must be. correct? We take Christ's promise seriously, when He promised the Holy Spirit to lead to truth. I look at it this way, if this is not true then Christ was a liar, and if He was a liar then there is no God. I prefer to study what we can be sure of - Scripture, and attempt to find the best redaction of history as possible and see what it concludes. Me too. I have studied and studied, and that is what made me convert to the Catholic Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 We take Christ's promise seriously, when He promised the Holy Spirit to lead to truth. I look at it this way, if this is not true then Christ was a liar, and if He was a liar then there is no God. Ok, can you give me one verse where Christ promised the to lead the church to truth? No, you can't, so you are basing this off the church saying it is so which is circular again. Me too. I have studied and studied, and that is what made me convert to the Catholic Church. That is interesting, so what were you for most of your life before Catholic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TABBY Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Ok, can you give me one verse where Christ promised the to lead the church to truth? No, you can't, so you are basing this off the church saying it is so which is circular again. Why are you asking a question and then you answer it? Yes I can. In fact I will be generious and give you more than just one. Isaiah 35:8, 54:13-17 Acts 9:2; 22:4; 24:14,22 Matt. 10:20; Luke 12:12 Matt. 16:18 Matt. 16:19 Matt. 28:20 (Jesus promise that he will be with the Church always) The lists goes on and on and on, but I am sure you get my point. That is interesting, so what were you for most of your life before Catholic? You name it, I was it. I was born Mormon, left that church, went to JW...left a month later; I couldnt agree with the limited heaven. I realized after a NDE that God was one, and not many. So I studied on that. I then tried the protestant thing. I then just stopped going and instead went to take theology classes. At this same time I was studying about the Catholic Church, and I studied about the other churches that I went to. I have noticed that there are alot of holes in all the churches I went. I also noticed during my journey before becoming catholic that every single one of the churches had a different interpretation. If the Spirit is truth, why is it giving out different interpretations? Why is it that they cant really stick with what one says? I then came to study on what exactly does John chapter 6 really means...I also had to study the ECF...I then studied about other things as well. There is no doubt that the Catholic Church is in fact the Church that Christ built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Ok, can you give me one verse where Christ promised the to lead the church to truth? No, you can't, so you are basing this off the church saying it is so which is circular again. Regarding your first statement, I can answer that: John 16:12-13. 12 "I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. 13 5 But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. And I'm not TABBY, but I thought I'd say that I'm a convert to Catholicism too. I'd originally been Presbyterian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 (edited) Why are you asking a question and then you answer it? Yes I can. In fact I will be generious and give you more than just one. Isaiah 35:8, 54:13-17 Acts 9:2; 22:4; 24:14,22 Matt. 10:20; Luke 12:12 Matt. 16:18 Matt. 16:19 Matt. 28:20 (Jesus promise that he will be with the Church always) The lists goes on and on and on, but I am sure you get my point. did you look at any of them? None of them say the church will be led into the full truth. I suggest you check up on your sources before posting in the future. For example.. Acts 9:2; 22:4; 24:14,22 - "and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.", "I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering to prison both men and women,", "But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets, But Felix, having a rather accurate knowledge of the Way, put them off, saying, "When Lysias the tribune comes down, I will decide your case." - these have nothing to do with what you said. or.... Matt 10:20; Lk 12:12 "For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.", "for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say." which is Christ speaking to the apostles about being able to have a defense for themselves. You name it, I was it. I was born Mormon, left that church, went to JW...left a month later; I couldnt agree with the limited heaven. I realized after a NDE that God was one, and not many. So I studied on that. I then tried the protestant thing. I then just stopped going and instead went to take theology classes. At this same time I was studying about the Catholic Church, and I studied about the other churches that I went to. I have noticed that there are alot of holes in all the churches I went. I also noticed during my journey before becoming catholic that every single one of the churches had a different interpretation. If the Spirit is truth, why is it giving out different interpretations? Why is it that they cant really stick with what one says? I then came to study on what exactly does John chapter 6 really means...I also had to study the ECF...I then studied about other things as well. There is no doubt that the Catholic Church is in fact the Church that Christ built. interesting. what is the NDE and ECF? Regarding your first statement, I can answer that: John 16:12-13. 12 "I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. 13 5 But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. You do realize that is spoken to the apostles, and not promised to the church. Edited January 25, 2004 by Circle_Master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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