Political Idea

[dairygirl4u2c]

here's a theory i have. pick holes.
i think most politics is rhetoric that doesn't necesarily have a place in practical perspective. here's the example. i think a republican would say "minimum wage should not be idecreased" then give the typical rhetoric. a democrat would say "it should be increased" then give the typical rhetoric. barring the hardliners who say there should be no minimum wage and the extremists, i bet they don't necessarily disagree if they are willing to reason. ask them both what someone should be able to buy at minimum wage, with out reference to rhetoric and comparing others, and i bet you'd see many of them agree. i bet even some republicans would list more things than the democrat and vise versa. again barring the extremists.

ideas?

Edited February 23, 2007 by dairygirl4u2c

[Groo the Wanderer]

I say the minimum wage should not be in existence period. I am neither republican nor democrat (nor a freaky libertarian for that matter).

Let the marketplace determine wages. Minwage had it's place back in the early 20th century. T-rex also had its place back in the late Cretaceous. Both are outdated and no longer necessary. One is extinct, the other should be as well.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1202917' date='Feb 22 2007, 10:12 PM']here's a theory i have. pick holes.
i think most politics is rhetoric that doesn't necesarily have a place in practical perspective. here's the example. i think a republican would say "minimum wage should not be idecreased" then give the typical rhetoric. a democrat would say "it should be increased" then give the typical rhetoric. barring the hardliners who say there should be no minimum wage and the extremists, i bet they don't necessarily disagree if they are willing to reason. ask them both what someone should be able to buy at minimum wage, with out reference to rhetoric and comparing others, and i bet you'd see many of them agree. i bet even some republicans would list more things than the democrat and vise versa. again barring the extremists.

ideas?[/quote]
I have gotten an interesting perspective on lawmaking with the job I have now ... I think a lot of times when new proposals are introduced there are two levels to the proposal. There's the level that's just talk, intended to provoke a reaction either pro or con on the proposal, and there's the level that's the practical meat of the proposal, the real deal that the person or people want to get enacted. Does that make sense?

[dairygirl4u2c]

yeah that makes sense. basic politics.

as to the other guys idea. i doubt he's considering that when there's a mass of people, they won't necessarily get a fair wage. i'm sure the guy who posted would say typical rhetoric... ie.. if you don't pay a good wage no one will work for ya. but if there's a lot of people, they don't have to necessarily pay a good wage. that's exactly what happens. people are stuck with lower end jobs. ultimately conservatives have to stop the footwork and just admit that they are either gonna say smell of elderberries it up, or stick with the minimum wage. status quo consrevatives like to feign their logical conclusions and live in denial. but anyway, i'm not here to debate the practical ideas, though i do have more of which i'm sure you've never considred. (such as why the basic inflation argument is too simplistic thinking)

i think people in my hypo, i should have said, would even argue with each other. they'd talk in an abstract rhetoric level and not realize they in fact agree, or are arguing the other's position more than they realize...

Edited February 23, 2007 by dairygirl4u2c

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I don't have a job right now because the state of Ohio raised the minimum wage and the school had to cut student aid (tuition assistance) jobs to cover salaries.

[dairygirl4u2c]

i am truly sorry you lost your job.
i do agree the loss of employment is the result of the minimum wage increase.
the question becomes several things. one is when the wage was two dollars, people lost jobs when they raised it. give aid to people to help them. the ratiaonale is another argument. you have to be willing to draw the line somewhere. if you kept it at two dollars there's be a bunch of people haveing kids just barely able to scrap by and the kids would be competing and the wages would go lower as people fight each other. everyone will start living on nothing. if you draw the line, theoretically, people won't have a bunch of kids they can't sustain etc as they don't have have jobs or really are scrapping by.

t's a question of how we as a sociey want our life to be. sorta like couples who choose things over children, but not to an extreme extent.

it's also a question of empriacal data. are my theories really happening or are they not?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1203671' date='Feb 23 2007, 08:52 PM']i am truly sorry you lost your job.
i do agree the loss of employment is the result of the minimum wage increase.
the question becomes several things. one is when the wage was two dollars, people lost jobs when they raised it. give aid to people to help them. the ratiaonale is another argument. you have to be willing to draw the line somewhere. if you kept it at two dollars there's be a bunch of people haveing kids just barely able to scrap by and the kids would be competing and the wages would go lower as people fight each other. everyone will start living on nothing. if you draw the line, theoretically, people won't have a bunch of kids they can't sustain etc as they don't have have jobs or really are scrapping by.

t's a question of how we as a sociey want our life to be. sorta like couples who choose things over children, but not to an extreme extent.

it's also a question of empriacal data. are my theories really happening or are they not?[/quote]
I didn't lose my job. I just can't get one now and really need one. I was counting on getting one this semester (I had too many classes last semester to hold a job), but they raised the wages over Christmas break. Steubenville is a very economically depressed area, so I can't really find work anywhere else.

[Winchester]

I say eliminate the minimum wage along with murder charges against people who kill bosses who pay them unfairly. The idea that businesses will willingly pay a just wage to people without rare skills (arbitrarily defined) is stupid, and the people who believe this are deluded, albeit well-meaning.

Companies are every bit a scum sucking as they ever were. Why? Because people are still scum-sucking pigs who will sell their mothers for an extra few points on the stock market.

ENRON. How many people lost their retirement behind the pieces of slime at the top of the company? Are those going to "prison" going to get out and find a real job? No, because they are still rich. In a sane society, those involved would be begging to stay in prison because what those who suffered would do to them would be far worse than getting a free lunch for a while in a federal pen with other white collar criminals. In a sane society, Ken Lay would have lost every bnit of property he'd owned, whether "transferred" to other family members or not.

We have a minimum wage to set a bar for companies like McDonald's. You want to pay the guy controllng your food a livable wage? Sounds like insurance to me.

[Anomaly]

dairygurl,
Both Repubs and Dems want to accomplish the same thing, which is the betterment of American society by protecting the wage earning ability of American workers in certain circumstances. As such, they both share the same goal. The debate is whether or not Minimum Wage accomplishes that goal and what are some of the unintended consequences of minimum wage.

On one hand, detractors of minimum wage point out that minimum wage is in reality giving maximum benefits to people who put in the minimum effort.
On the other hand, minimum wage prevents the artificial depression of wage rates.

In a free market economy, people ideally have the freedom to succeed and/or fail. That is similar to God providing us free will to choose salvation or reject it. With a free-market economy, Government is needed to protect those who are TRUELY incapabley of providing themselves, while allowing others the FREEDOM to be as successfull as their skills, luck, and effort provides opportunities.

How that is accomplished most effectively with or without minimum wage is the question.

We do have the freedom to quit and look for other jobs, and with unemployment at extremely low levels, it seems superfluous to have an artificial minimum wage. On the other hand, in economic depression with high unemployment, workers are not as free to switch jobs and seek better wages or working conditions.

There are always areas where the local economy has exceptions to the rule. Here, I have an extremely difficult time hiring workers at $9/hour with free medical insurance. Minimum wage is meaningless. But there are plenty of people who walk in the door that have don't have a driver's license, or have no work ethic or good work history and do not qualify. Why should people who don't put in the effort to keep thier lives in order make the same as people who have a DL and a work ethic?

At what point is it 'tough', you created your bed, now you have to lie in it?