ardillacid Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 [quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1203644' date='Feb 23 2007, 07:24 PM']I think it's based on a feeling that if they don't receive these gifts then they won't fit into the community. I think that very nearly all instances are self-induced, such as when voodoo adherents trance out. If the desire is strong enough for something to happen, fakery is not above some people.[/quote] Keep in mind that this is coming from the man who thinks zombies have rights too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 (edited) [size=1]Personally, I tend to assume its fake before I go believe it. Maybe some people really experience it, but I think 98% of it is their mind playing a trick on their body because they want to experience it so bad...or they are just faking for attention. They just want to believe it happened sooooo bad that they trick themselves into thinking that it acctually did. I just have a hard time believe that sort of thing. [/size] Edited February 24, 2007 by CrossCuT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 [quote name='Fishmaker' post='1202788' date='Feb 22 2007, 08:23 PM']We were discussing this recently. Could this phenomenon be some sort of undiagnosed narcolepsy?? It just seems to me that if the Lord was going to let someone rest in Him, it would happen all the time after receiving the Eucharist. What do you think?[/quote] It's called resting in the Spirit, not resting in the Son. I understand the skepticism. I would be skeptical. I was skeptical. You probably should be skeptical... but you prolly don't have to be. I can personally attest to the fact that it just happens...just because it did happen to me prior to my knowing what it was (I thought slain in the spirit was far more dramatic than it actually was). I'll get into it more later, but trust me, it's not fake. At least with me it wasn't. And I'm at least 96% sure that it's not fake with most other people. It has nothing to do with fitting in. It...just.......happens? Yeah. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 [quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1203642' date='Feb 23 2007, 08:22 PM']Had you [b]eaten [/b]that day? Sounds like you fainted. Not to trivialize your experience or anything, but usually the most mundane explanation is the correct one.[/quote] I am a big boy. I had eaten a solid breakfast (grapefruit juice, bowl of cerel), a decent sized lunch (sandwich, milk), and a quality steak/potatoes dinner. I was also extremely well-rested, relatively happy and otherwise healthy. Mundane explanations trivialize God's amazing power. I repeat from my other post: don't be so skeptical. God can do what He wants, no matter how strange or seemingly-illogical those actions may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 [size=1]I have ONLY seen it happen in a charismatic environment. Never at church in silent adoration, or right after communion at a regular service. Only when there is music to influence your mood have I seen people drop down and laugh, cry, sleep, seize, beat other people, talk in tongues, or eat hamburgers "in the spirit". Never any other time have I witnessed it, so I still believe 98% is fake. I think all these people are tricking themselves. [/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I wouldn't say that it is ever "fake," persay. I suppose that the groupthink mentality could set in, causing most of these people to truly want to be rested or slain or whatever. Granted, especially amongst teenagers, there is pressure to conform and to be "as holy" as your peer. Could some (perhaps even most) instances of this phenomenon be not entirely-true? Sure; however, I would caution the skeptics out there to realize that we don't always know the way God works in people's heart. Maybe these people, though they are not actually being "slain in the Spirit," are experiencing a profound increase in faith due to their ardent desire to be slain. I have seen God have the proclivity to take apples and turn them into oranges (and take water and turn it into wine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prose Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Okay, I understand the skepticism. My intent was not to be skeptic. My intent was to discuss whether this phenomenon [i]could[/i] be ever attributed to something else. I think people could psychologically convince themselves something like this. But does anyone else have any other explanations? I believe that it truly happens to some people, but certainly not to everyone who claims it to have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 [quote name='kujo' post='1204005' date='Feb 24 2007, 06:42 PM']I have seen God have the proclivity to take apples and turn them into oranges (and take water and turn it into wine).[/quote] I'd like for God to give me proof that He's up there, but He doesn't seem to want to...and some part of me says that I shouldn't need it. Perhaps that is another reason people start this charismatic stuff. If God puts you to sleep then it is easier to believe in Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy me Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I must admit that that I have felt that it is forced at times. But will reserve judgement on this because I know that with God all things are possible. It has never happened to me but I have been in the presence of those whose are being "slain in the spirit." I know for a fact that God works differently in each of us and gives each of us different gifts. I have recieved some that I have never spoken about because they just seemed too strange and yet they moved me closer to God. I think that you have to look at the fruits. If we get too hung up looking for a logical explanation we could find that we are missing the message that we were being given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 [quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1204152' date='Feb 24 2007, 06:48 PM']I'd like for God to give me proof that He's up there, but He doesn't seem to want to...and some part of me says that I shouldn't need it. Perhaps that is another reason people start this charismatic stuff. If God puts you to sleep then it is easier to believe in Him.[/quote] What, the Fatima apparition isn't enough? Maybe people "Start this Fatima stuff because then it is easier to believe in Him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 [quote name='XIX' post='1204219' date='Feb 25 2007, 12:09 AM']What, the Fatima apparition isn't enough? Maybe people "Start this Fatima stuff because then it is easier to believe in Him."[/quote] Oh, you were at Fatima? What was it like? I didn't get here in time to see the sights...there is no immediacy to this miracle, which is what I meant by my previous comment. I can't relate because nothing has happened to me. And it would be foolish to believe that these occurrences are commonplace, when that would make the fantastic mundane...less oomph, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Just by the fact that the Fatima miracles obviously happened, you have practically irrefutable evidence that God exists. And that He is into Marian devotion. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with your first two lines, could you clarify? You are buying into the lie that something has to be rare to have oomph. That if something happens to a lot of people, that makes it somehow less important. Using your logic, Daily Mass has no "oomph." Daily Rosary has no "oomph." I don't like how we are applying one standard to Catholicism and a completely different standard to charismatic prayer. There's charismatic prayer in the Bible, for crying out loud! What if I started doubting everyone who says that the Rosary has changed their life? What if I said that I think they are faking it or fooling themselves into believing that they are getting Sacramental grace? We really need to give this a rest. Chasrismatic prayer is approved by the Vatican, and there is no way we could ever say that other people are faking it without passing judgement. Skepticism is one thing, but there is no reason to let it get beyond skepticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 [quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1204152' date='Feb 24 2007, 05:48 PM']I'd like for God to give me proof that He's up there, but He doesn't seem to want to...and some part of me says that I shouldn't need it.[/quote] [size=1]Proof? You have all the proof you need. The world, people, stars, everything! Thats proof enough. [/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philosophette Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Just curious, does anyone know of anyone who feels that they were slain in the spirit when they were alone with no one around and not at a prayer meeting? Also, doesn't Teresa of Avila speak of something similar? I do not have my book here, but I think it is in the Interior Castle and it is a kind if mystical absorption in God; I remember while reading it that it sounded a lot like being slain in the spirit. I might be recalling it incorrectly. At any rate... always in community or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prose Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 That is a great question. Is this something that exists only when others are around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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