Which Bible Should We Trust?

[cmotherofpirl]

'Urib2007'
How does God Almighty communicate with His people? How does God teach His creation about how the world began? How does God teach His people His laws? I can only think of one way and that way is through the BIBLE.

[color="#FF0000"]But the Bible says the Church is the pillar and foundation. The Bible is a product of the Church which guarentees its. The Bible didn't exist in todays form until the Church voted on it in council in AD397.
Not all the many books of the time made the cut. Ya better do somemore thinking on this [/color]

God is not going to abandon His Word and He's not going to have translations interfere with His message, although many of the newer versions have been corrupted. I believe God gave His final authority on the Authorized King James Version Bible.

[color="#FF0000"]I think you better make up your mind, you just contradicted yourself. You can believe that fantasy if you want but the history of the KJV proves you wrong. It had numerous revisions as soon as it came out, honoered the Blessed Virgin Mary, and contained the Apocrypha. You also have no prove that God blessed that flawed translation, especially since the translators admitted they had made errors and were unsure of their own work.[/color]

Do you honestly think God would cause all of this confusion regarding which Bible to read? I know God is not the author of confusion. It's just another deception from satan.
[color="#FF0000"]
God didn't cause this confusion. Unqualifed people using private translation outside of the Church [ which the Bible calls the pillar and foundation] did.[/color]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1207239' date='Mar 3 2007, 11:35 AM']Do any of your other bible translations contain these awe-inspiring bible codes?[/quote]


Some human editor added the numbers becausethebiblewaswrittenlikethis. Thatiswhyprotestbiblesgotthecommandmentsnumberedwrong.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' date='Mar 3 2007, 03:14 PM' post='1207219']
Hi my friend, good to see you reply.

Copt is kinda like Egyptian Hyrogliphix written in greek charectors [kinda]. Here's an image to display it [thou I'm not fluent in Copt or nothing. Most Copts dont know it, thou we sing our liturgy in it, have translations, get to see it, etc]. [quote]

I know it's liturgical, used a bit like Latin is in the Western Church, if I'm not mistaken. And Coptic does have many similarities with hieroglyphs, but like all languages, it has changed. I know my prof knows hieroglyphs, hieratic, demotic, and Coptic, and has spoken on some of the similarities.


[quote]
Oh really? I think, as an archiologist and Egyptologist, you might mind it quite interesting and informative. There's a Mountain [that's not got a church on it] that God moved [which resulted in it being split horizontally and vertically in the form of a cross], that's got alot of ancient culture on it that you might enjoy. [quote]

May I ask what mountain this is? It sounds quite interesting, and I do love to read about any history when I have the time. When I say Late Period, I mean after the 3rd intermediate period and before the Ptolemaic period (ie: 26th-30th dynasties). I focus on the Old Kingdom, some Middle Kingdom, and only go as recent as the New Kingdom if I have to, and even then I try not to go beyond the 18th dynasty. It's just personal preference for my research, though I like to learn about all history. I know the Late Period is interesting, especially to Assyriaologists, since that is when contacts between Egypt and Persia happened. It's just not my specialty; Egyptian history is so vast, it's quite difficult to focus on it in its entirety.

[quote] Right but the modern Hebrew is very very very different then the ancient, which is why the scholars mentioned having an enormously difficult time translating it. [quote]

I wasn't trying to say that modern Hebrew is the same as the ancient Hebrew, just saying that the absence of vowels does not make a Semitic-based language unreadable. I wouldn't say that modern Hebrew is the reason for scholars having a difficult time translating the ancient text, however, since modern Hebrew has only been around since about the 1920s and scholars were translating ancient Hebrew before then. Scholars do look at other ancient Semitic languages to look for cognates at times, though, especially since we now have Akkadian texts. Even so, you're right that there are certainly difficulties in translating the ancient Hebrew due to the fact that the Bible is the only ancient Hebrew text we have. Thankfully Masoretic tradition has preserved a good deal of it, providing commentary on the meaning of some words, and even including the vowels, actually.

[quote] I definately wouldn't agree with this verse, the KJV, among the vast others translate from the Septuigent. [quote]

Actually, the KJV used the Hebrew texts as well, just not the Biblia Hebraica. Later translations generally use this, which is from the Leningrad Codex. Most translations do, in fact, use the Hebrew texts, and the good translations also cross-check with the Septuagint. St. Jerome used both for the Vulgate, from which we get the DR. The Jerusalem Bible uses the Hebrew, & Septuagint for the deuteros. The RSV-CE does the same thing, as does the NAB. So I guess my point is that scholars should use both and not completely discount either the Hebrew texts or the Septuagint. Looking at the Hebrew texts ensures that nothing has been lost in translating from a translation, as the Septuagint is, and cross-checking with the Septuagint is especially helpful for those words that only occur once in the Biblical text.

And feel free to start a new thread about this, I feel like we're kinda taking over here. And thank you for talking to me - I like talking about languages and archaeology.

God bless!
Archaeology cat

[Budge]

I follow one rule...

AVOID THE ALEXANDRIAN STREAM which is where most Catholic Bibles are from.

[img]http://i16.tinypic.com/2lkxykl.jpg[/img]

I use the KJV..and I believe that many Bibles have been CHANGED...to reflect false teachings and more.

One interesting difference between Catholic Bible and KJV is this..

Douhay Rheims..

[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/01003.htm"]CATHOLIC BIBLE[/url]
[b]
15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.[/b]

and KJV...
[b]
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.[/b]

Her seed meaning Jesus...

Interesting change of meaning isnt it?

However I have concerns about Riplinger and those like Ruckman who skew things teaching the KJV as a "new revelation" Ruckman has much false doctrine including a SONSHIP of Christ teaching that denies the divinity of Christ.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1207239' date='Mar 3 2007, 08:35 AM']Do any of your other bible translations contain these awe-inspiring bible codes? The King James Code is prodigiously inspired by the Hand of God. His signature is written on every single page and His approval graces the KJV because of these bible codes that one can only see in the King James Version. Now if there are bible codes in the newer [b]English translations[/b], please feel free to inform me on this. Of what I know, the KJV is the only English bible with these magnificent codes. I'm only going to list a few descriptions of these Bible Codes. There's just too many to type out.

[size=2]"Let God be true and every man a liar." - Romans 3:4
[/size]

[color="#000080"][b][size=3]Scriptural Numbers in the King James Version
[/size][/b][/color]

[u][b]Number 6 -- the number for PREPARATION[/b][/u]

(Genesis [b]6[/b]:14) "Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch."

(Genesis 7:[b]6[/b]) "And Noah was [b]six hundred[/b] years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth."

The number meanings are in the Genesis chapter. How does the number 6 deal with the theme of preparation? In Genesis Chapter 6, God took Noah and told him what was going to happen ahead of time and then caused him to prepare for what was going to occur. And then in Genesis Chapter 7:[b]6[/b], Noah was [b]600 years old[[/b] when the flood of the waters came upon the earth. Notice the pattern that the Bible is laying out for us.

"Days of Noah" mentioned [b]6[/b] times

(1 Peter 3:20) "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the [b]days of Noah[/b], while the ark was a preparing, where in few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

The Bible says, Jesus said as it was in the [b]days of Noah[/b], so shall it be the coming of the son of man.

(Exodus 16:5) "And it shall come to pass, that on the [b]sixth day[/b] they shall [b]prepare[/b] that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily."

God has ordained that we work [b]6 days[/b].

(Revelation [b]6[/b]:12) "And I beheld when he had opened the [b]sixth[/b] seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sack cloth of hair, and the moon became as blood."

(Joel 2:31) "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, [b]before[/b] the great and the terrible day of the Lord come."

So when the [b]sixth seal[/b] is opening, it is a preparation of the things that lie ahead, which is the great and terrible day of the Lord.

(Revelation 9:14-15) "Saying to the [b]sixth angel[/b] which had the trumpet, loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. (15) And the four angels were loosed, which were [b]prepared[/b] for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men."

Notice this in the [b]6th[/b] book of the Bible, which is the Book of Joshua:

* [b]6th[/b] book of the Bible - Joshua
* Joshua mentioned [b]216 (6x6x6) times[/b]
* Joshua has [b]24 (6x4)[/b] chapters
* Details the [b]preparation[/b] to enter the Promised Land, including a [b]6[/b] day march around Jericho.

* The word "prepare" mentioned in 78 ([b]6[/b]x13) verses of the Bible
* (Exodus 1[b]6[/b]:5) "And it shall come to pass, that on the [b]sixth day[/b] they shall [b]prepare[/b] that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily."
* Exodus [b]16[/b] is the [b]66th[/b] chapter of the Bible.

How many books are in our Bible? [b]66 books![/b]

[b][u]Days of Preparation[/u][/b]

*This phrase [b]"days of preparation"[/b] is used [b]6[/b] times in the Bible.
* (Luke 23:54) "And that day was the [b]preparation[/b], and the sabbath drew on."
* The phrase [b]"sixth day"[/b] is mentioned [b]6[/b] times in the King James Bible.

* (Ephesians [b]6:[/b]14-17) God has [b]prepared[/b] us for spritual warfare by these [b]six things.[/b]

MAN

* "Mankind" is mentioned [b]6 times[/b]
* "Man" is mentioned [b]6 times in Genesis 6[/b]
* The [b]6th commandment[/b] is "thou shalt not kill."
* "Behold the man" is mentioned exactly [b]6 times[/b] in the KJV
* (John 19:5) "Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them,[b] behold the man!"[/b]

(1 Timothy 3:1[b]6[/b]) characterizes Jesus in [b]6 ways.[/b]

1) God was manifest in the flesh, not an angel. Jesus was not a created being. He was God.
2) Justified in the spirit
3) Seen of angels
4) Preached unto the Gentiles
5) Believed on in the world
6) Received up into glory

And He says what? What he's gone to PREPARE a place for us.[/quote]

Why do you put emphisis on the hidden annomolies of numbers rather then that which was actually written? Just because the KJV seems to "work out to your benefit" in regards to these annomolies doesn't make it mmore inspired otherwise God would have written the Bible in that language rather then Greek ;-)

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1207239' date='Mar 3 2007, 04:35 PM']Do any of your other bible translations contain these awe-inspiring bible codes? The King James Code is prodigiously inspired by the Hand of God. His signature is written on every single page and His approval graces the KJV because of these bible codes that one can only see in the King James Version. Now if there are bible codes in the newer [b]English translations[/b], please feel free to inform me on this. Of what I know, the KJV is the only English bible with these magnificent codes. I'm only going to list a few descriptions of these Bible Codes. There's just too many to type out.

[size=2]"Let God be true and every man a liar." - Romans 3:4
[/size]

[color="#000080"][b][size=3]Scriptural Numbers in the King James Version
[/size][/b][/color]

[u][b]Number 6 -- the number for PREPARATION[/b][/u]

(Genesis [b]6[/b]:14) "Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch."

(Genesis 7:[b]6[/b]) "And Noah was [b]six hundred[/b] years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth."

The number meanings are in the Genesis chapter. How does the number 6 deal with the theme of preparation? In Genesis Chapter 6, God took Noah and told him what was going to happen ahead of time and then caused him to prepare for what was going to occur. And then in Genesis Chapter 7:[b]6[/b], Noah was [b]600 years old[[/b] when the flood of the waters came upon the earth. Notice the pattern that the Bible is laying out for us.

"Days of Noah" mentioned [b]6[/b] times

(1 Peter 3:20) "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the [b]days of Noah[/b], while the ark was a preparing, where in few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

The Bible says, Jesus said as it was in the [b]days of Noah[/b], so shall it be the coming of the son of man.

(Exodus 16:5) "And it shall come to pass, that on the [b]sixth day[/b] they shall [b]prepare[/b] that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily."

God has ordained that we work [b]6 days[/b].

(Revelation [b]6[/b]:12) "And I beheld when he had opened the [b]sixth[/b] seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sack cloth of hair, and the moon became as blood."

(Joel 2:31) "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, [b]before[/b] the great and the terrible day of the Lord come."

So when the [b]sixth seal[/b] is opening, it is a preparation of the things that lie ahead, which is the great and terrible day of the Lord.

(Revelation 9:14-15) "Saying to the [b]sixth angel[/b] which had the trumpet, loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. (15) And the four angels were loosed, which were [b]prepared[/b] for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men."

Notice this in the [b]6th[/b] book of the Bible, which is the Book of Joshua:

* [b]6th[/b] book of the Bible - Joshua
* Joshua mentioned [b]216 (6x6x6) times[/b]
* Joshua has [b]24 (6x4)[/b] chapters
* Details the [b]preparation[/b] to enter the Promised Land, including a [b]6[/b] day march around Jericho.

* The word "prepare" mentioned in 78 ([b]6[/b]x13) verses of the Bible
* (Exodus 1[b]6[/b]:5) "And it shall come to pass, that on the [b]sixth day[/b] they shall [b]prepare[/b] that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily."
* Exodus [b]16[/b] is the [b]66th[/b] chapter of the Bible.

How many books are in our Bible? [b]66 books![/b]

[b][u]Days of Preparation[/u][/b]

*This phrase [b]"days of preparation"[/b] is used [b]6[/b] times in the Bible.
* (Luke 23:54) "And that day was the [b]preparation[/b], and the sabbath drew on."
* The phrase [b]"sixth day"[/b] is mentioned [b]6[/b] times in the King James Bible.

* (Ephesians [b]6:[/b]14-17) God has [b]prepared[/b] us for spritual warfare by these [b]six things.[/b]

MAN

* "Mankind" is mentioned [b]6 times[/b]
* "Man" is mentioned [b]6 times in Genesis 6[/b]
* The [b]6th commandment[/b] is "thou shalt not kill."
* "Behold the man" is mentioned exactly [b]6 times[/b] in the KJV
* (John 19:5) "Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them,[b] behold the man!"[/b]

(1 Timothy 3:1[b]6[/b]) characterizes Jesus in [b]6 ways.[/b]

1) God was manifest in the flesh, not an angel. Jesus was not a created being. He was God.
2) Justified in the spirit
3) Seen of angels
4) Preached unto the Gentiles
5) Believed on in the world
6) Received up into glory

And He says what? What he's gone to PREPARE a place for us.[/quote]

I'm going to have to echo Reza here. I'd also point out that pointing to specific chapter & verse numbers doesn't really mean anything, as the original had neither chapter nor verse numbers.

[got2luvjc]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1207718' date='Mar 4 2007, 11:52 AM']I'm going to have to echo Reza here. I'd also point out that pointing to specific chapter & verse numbers doesn't really mean anything, as the original had neither chapter nor verse numbers.[/quote]

yeah. I can probably re-emphasize different numbers or words in those passages and have it mean a whole different thing. the is men writing down stuff, I don't think they put that stuff in and was like "oh man, people in centuries to come are going to think this is SSSOOOOOO cool!!!"

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1200132' date='Feb 19 2007, 12:32 AM']Which bible should we trust?

[center][img]http://www.bibleandscience.com/bible/images/kjvrpt.jpg[/img][/center][/quote]


The question is better suited to be asked as "What language should we study the bible in?"

All bibles authorized by the Holy Catholic Church are good.
Don't get lost in translation. English is a vulgar language that translations do no always equate to meaning. Read multiple translations.

Do not read the bible without reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church that explains the bible.


The KJV is a poor translation.

God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited March 5, 2007 by ironmonk

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Budge' post='1207667' date='Mar 4 2007, 09:57 AM']I follow one rule...

AVOID THE ALEXANDRIAN STREAM which is where most Catholic Bibles are from.

[img]http://i16.tinypic.com/2lkxykl.jpg[/img]

I use the KJV..and I believe that many Bibles have been CHANGED...to reflect false teachings and more.

One interesting difference between Catholic Bible and KJV is this..

Douhay Rheims..

[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/01003.htm"]CATHOLIC BIBLE[/url]
[b]
15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.[/b]

and KJV...
[b]
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.[/b]

Her seed meaning Jesus...

Interesting change of meaning isnt it?

However I have concerns about Riplinger and those like Ruckman who skew things teaching the KJV as a "new revelation" Ruckman has much false doctrine including a SONSHIP of Christ teaching that denies the divinity of Christ.[/quote]
Unfortunately, both intreprations are wrong.

Jewish Publication Society Bible, the only version I read the Old Testament in - for obvious reasons, says.

[quote name='Genesis 3:15']And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; [b]they[/b] shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise [b]their[/b] heel.'[/quote]

Budge, read about the [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=64587"]Sons of God the Nephilim[/url] forum piece here, before you continue this. It will open your mind up to a brand new world of why God was manifested in the flesh as Jesus Christ to die on the cross for us.

God expects us to put the enemies of humanity and God under our feet, through the name of Jesus Christ.

Edited March 5, 2007 by FullTruth

[mroger]

[quote name='GloriaIesusChristi' post='1205822' date='Feb 28 2007, 12:58 PM']I agree with c'mom. IMHO, my conviction is that the right way to understand the Scriptures would be the way that Islam and Judaism understand them, only the Arabic text of the Qur'an and the Hebrew of the Tanakh are reliable. Once they are translated into english the texts lose their cultural worth and can be manipulated. Therefore, it would not hurt if Christians, who feel they are authentic, should learn to read the New and Old Testaments of the Bible in their original texts, Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.

That is just a theory, but, It would solve all of this: Plummber's Study Bible, Super Prophecy Edition Study Bible (with Apocalyptic footnotes included!), Airmens Study Bible, or versions of [i] The Message[/i] that can be even ordered in Ebonics, and yes even, The Duct Tape Bible.[/quote]

There ain't no kind of Latin in the bible, I dunno who told ya that, but they was wrong! so wrong. Anyhow, there is virtual concensus on the OT translations (which books are included is a different story), so that leaves Greek. You can be a biblical scholar by learning Bibilcal greek. Of course, though, you would need to learn it from a Catholic.

Now, if you want to study Aquinas or Augustine, then learn Latin.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1208191' date='Mar 4 2007, 07:43 PM']Jewish Publication Society Bible, the only version I read the Old Testament in - for obvious reasons, says.[/quote] What makes you believe that its more accurate then the Septuigent? Jesus quoted from the Sept so I'd assume that there was a purpose behind it?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1207667' date='Mar 4 2007, 09:57 AM']I use the KJV[/quote]

And I have repeatedly shown how it is a inaccurate translation which its own translators recognized, so why do you still use it?

[ironmonk]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1208191' date='Mar 4 2007, 10:43 PM']Unfortunately, both intreprations are wrong.

Jewish Publication Society Bible, the only version I read the Old Testament in - for obvious reasons, says.
Budge, read about the [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=64587"]Sons of God the Nephilim[/url] forum piece here, before you continue this. It will open your mind up to a brand new world of why God was manifested in the flesh as Jesus Christ to die on the cross for us.

God expects us to put the enemies of humanity and God under our feet, through the name of Jesus Christ.[/quote]


The Septuagint is from 290 BC... it's the Scriptures that Christ and the Apostles used. It is the Scriptures spoken of in the New Testament. The Catholic Church is the only church that uses the Septuagint for it's OT.

The Churches spoken of in the New Testament where all Catholic.

The sole reason why we have the Bible today is because monks copied the Scriptures, Gospels and letters by hand and sent multiple copies out to all of the Churches.... those Churches in turn would make copies and send them out to Parishes. They would replace older copies with newer copies all the way until a Catholic named Gutenburg created the printing press... then they used the printing press to make copies and bibles slowly became affordable for the common man to own... not to mention that the common man could not read until the last hundred and fifty or so years.

Point being... the Catholic Church is the best to explain what Christ entrusted them to.


God Bless,
ironmonk