Which Bible Should We Trust?

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1205645' date='Feb 27 2007, 11:27 PM']I'm going to leave aside the arguments you make regarding your peculiar brand of Protestantism, which seems to favor Unitarianism and Sabbatarianism. I just want to suggest that you save these arguments for their own threads and not try to hijack the topic of the thread, which is "Which Bible Should We Trust?"[/quote]
I'm not Protestant anymore. I don't even know what that means. I like the idea of God Chaser myself. I hope I'm a follower of the Christ. I'm totally independant of all religions in the world because the elites use them to convince everybody they have the right religion, and all others are false religions.

There is so many religious spirits out there, and all of them are Satanic. Don't fall in love with your religion, fall in love with YHWH, because he is the only one who can save you.

BTW, how do I change my signature? I'm having some difficulty with this new system?

Edited February 28, 2007 by FullTruth

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1205650' date='Feb 27 2007, 11:35 PM']I'm not Protestant anymore. I don't even know what that means.[/quote]Protestant rough definition: a western Christian who protests the authority of the Catholic Church. The spiritual children of the Reformation.

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1205650' date='Feb 27 2007, 11:35 PM']There is so many religious spirits out there, and all of them are Satanic. Don't fall in love with your religion, fall in love with YHWH, because he is the only one who can save you.[/quote]There are so many threads out there. Don't fall in love with this poor thread about different Bible translations. Just say "no" to hijacking.

Edited February 28, 2007 by Mateo el Feo

[FullTruth]

Mateo, you mis-intrepreted me.

I know I came here with a religious spirit, seeking to do it's agenda some time ago. It was a really exhausting battle to finally defeat it.

Catholics are just as weak when it comes to religious spirits as Protestants. That's the problem. Each religion will go out of its way to try to prove each other is wrong. They do so because Religious spirits come into the lives of people, and drive them with this lie - their religion is the only true religion and all other religions are evil and in sin, and all other members of all other religions must repent of the sin of seperating itself of the 'true religion' or they will burn in hell. All religions are based on that fact, and there are people in all religions who are so zealot that they must prove their religion is the right one.

I love all those who love Christ. I love the Church christ has planted in the hearts of the believers. I love the bible he created. The church is truly amazing. I love Jesus Christ, and he loves me.

I love protestants, catholics, jews, muslims, and all who call out in the name of Jesus Christ.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1205688' date='Feb 28 2007, 01:26 AM']Mateo, you mis-intrepreted me.[/quote]Honestly, it would help if you could hold my hand and let me know (e.g. by quoting me) how I misinterpreted you. I really just was hoping that I could persuade you to stick to the topic instead of chasing conspiracies about things like the pope's secret "masters."

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1205688' date='Feb 28 2007, 01:26 AM']Catholics are just as weak when it comes to religious spirits as Protestants. That's the problem.[/quote]If you'd like to talk about our weaknesses, you're in the wrong thread.

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1205688' date='Feb 28 2007, 01:26 AM']Each religion will go out of its way to try to prove each other is wrong. They do so because Religious spirits come into the lives of people, and drive them with this lie - their religion is the only true religion and all other religions are evil and in sin, and all other members of all other religions must repent of the sin of seperating itself of the 'true religion' or they will burn in hell. All religions are based on that fact, and there are people in all religions who are so zealot that they must prove their religion is the right one.[/quote]It is you, FullTruth, who must deal with the fact that Our Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed that He is "the Way, the Truth, and the Life" (John 14:6). Certainly, this attitude of exclusivity goes against the grain of the belief system (i.e. religion) that you describe here.

The problem is, you've been quite liberal in condemning those who differ from you as not holding onto your "true religion." You've even repeatedly condemned to the fires of hell those who dare disagree with you. It would seem that your words of condemnation apply to your own behavior.

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1205688' date='Feb 28 2007, 01:26 AM']I love all those who love Christ. I love the Church christ has planted in the hearts of the believers. I love the bible he created. The church is truly amazing. I love Jesus Christ, and he loves me.[/quote]""Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.." (Matthew 7:22). So what makes you think you are so sure about actually doing the will of the Father, and how are you certain that Our Lord won't solemnly declare, "I never knew you"? Considering that the you disagree with the vast majority of Christianity today and though the ages, these questions are quite important for you to ask yourself. Put another way, "At what age do you think you became wiser than the collective wisdom of 2,000 years of Christianity?"

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1205688' date='Feb 28 2007, 01:26 AM']I love protestants, catholics, jews, muslims, and all who call out in the name of Jesus Christ.[/quote]I love all mankind, who was made in the Image and likeness of God (Gen 1:26). But, with all the love you have for "all who call out in the name of Jesus Christ", you have a facility with pronouncing eternal condemnation on these same people.

I do hope you'll consider my words. It's an awefully lonely road to believe that you are the sole authority for what is and isn't "true religion." From my vantage point, that's the path you are currently on.

[cmotherofpirl]

please stick to the topics of bibles.
the end.
ty

[123]

[quote]THe International Versions out there may be easy reading, but are not authentic catholic scholarship, and so contain errors in translation and/or footnotes.[/quote]


I agree with c'mom. IMHO, my conviction is that the right way to understand the Scriptures would be the way that Islam and Judaism understand them, only the Arabic text of the Qur'an and the Hebrew of the Tanakh are reliable. Once they are translated into english the texts lose their cultural worth and can be manipulated. Therefore, it would not hurt if Christians, who feel they are authentic, should learn to read the New and Old Testaments of the Bible in their original texts, Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.

That is just a theory, but, It would solve all of this: Plummber's Study Bible, Super Prophecy Edition Study Bible (with Apocalyptic footnotes included!), Airmens Study Bible, or versions of [i] The Message[/i] that can be even ordered in Ebonics, and yes even, The Duct Tape Bible.

[cmotherofpirl]

I see no point in how Islam interprets the Scriptures, unless you are doing apologetics with muslims.
To say that only the Hebrew Tanakh is reliable isn't true, the Catholic church has been using the same basic Scriptures for 2000 years. St Augustine [born in AD354] testifies that the old Latin version had certainly come "from the first days of the Faith", and the latter that it "had helped to strengthen the faith of the infant Church." So I will stick with the Catholic translations.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1205686' date='Feb 27 2007, 10:26 PM']Each religion will go out of its way to try to prove each other is wrong. They do so because Religious spirits come into the lives of people, and drive them with this lie - their religion is the only true religion and all other religions are evil and in sin, and all other members of all other religions must repent of the sin of seperating itself of the 'true religion' or they will burn in hell. All religions are based on that fact, and there are people in all religions who are so zealot that they must prove their religion is the right one.[/quote]

This isn't exactly true, I was once a zealot at a Messianic Jewish/charismatic church [in my pre-teen years], then I'd been raised by Muslims [in my teens], but was introduced to Coptic Orthodox at this time [which I rejected] and was overly zealous about that, then I'd gone back to the Messianic Jewish/Charismatic church but later was enlightened to Coptic Orthodoxy. Just for the record too... Coptics [as probably most Christians] dont' have the view of "either you're Coptic or you're burning in hell".

[quote]Don't fall in love with your religion, fall in love with YHWH, because he is the only one who can save you.[/quote]The problem is that the church [the true church] is Christ's bride, therefore those that aren't part of that church are what? God isn't a polygimist and doesn't have multiple brides, so if someone doesn't belong to his one and only bride, what are they?

[quote]Nothing beats Jewish People translating the original Hebrew Text, period.[/quote] Actually that isn't true, the Jewish people can't translate the Bible from the original Hebrew because the original Hebrew was lost. After it was discovered from the ruins of the temple, it didn't have any vowels in it, therefore the modern Hebrew speakers couldn't interpret it properly, which makes the Septuigent the most accurate translation on the planet [not to mention Jesus quoted from it].

back to the question at hand. "The Message" is just a typical example of Protestant faults. It's heretical, through and through. It's best to stick to a mainline translation. As I'd mentioned, if you'd like something more easy to read, read the New Jerusalem Bible [a Catholic Translation, given the stamp of approval by the Vatican, if I'm not mistaken].

[quote]Amen. Even my evangelical Protestant boyfriend agrees with that statement. (He defends me against anti-Catholic accusations by asserting that the Catholic Church is responsible for putting the Bible together).[/quote] But as I'd mentioned before, "Catholic" is in reference to all the Catholic Churches [Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox alike] that helped compile it, etc... NOT just Roman.

Reza

[Aloysius]

Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox are two ways of saying the same thing.

but yes, it was set by an infallible [i]ecumenical[/i] council, it comes from the whole Catholic Church, all sui juris churches included.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1206208' date='Mar 1 2007, 08:20 AM']The problem is that the church [the true church] is Christ's bride, therefore those that aren't part of that church are what? God isn't a polygimist and doesn't have multiple brides, so if someone doesn't belong to his one and only bride, what are they?[/quote]

Hmm, I guess I must belong to your religion for Christ to take me in. I must be going to hell then.

Churches are not organizations, they are believers.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1206513' date='Mar 1 2007, 07:37 PM']Hmm, I guess I must belong to your religion for Christ to take me in. I must be going to hell then.

Churches are not organizations, they are believers.[/quote]

Yuo were baptised so you are a member of the Body of Christ. The Church is the organization of believers set up by Jesus.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1206570' date='Mar 1 2007, 08:32 PM']Yuo were baptised so you are a member of the Body of Christ. The Church is the organization of believers set up by Jesus.[/quote]
That is what I am talking about when I talk about Religious spirits.

Your statement doesn't show any religious spirit attached to it. You recognize that I am part of the Body of Christ. That is what redeems me from death and hell.

The other person I commented on wrote something that wasn't of the Holy Ghost.

I have to admit, my posts reveal a lot of my personality. I like 'stirring the pot'. I find it interesting to see people's reactions to my posts.

But at the same time, I take my relationship with God very seriously. I LOVE HIM! I WILL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PLEASE HIM! If I ever felt that I needed to belong to a certain religious organization, I would do it immediately. But he doesn't. He doesn't press on me to join any church.

[mroger]

Dear author,

I find it quite absurd that you would even consider "which bible we should trust" as a valid question when your answer ended with King James.

Nevermind that most protestants today recognize that the books of Wisdom, and Tobit and others that the KJV do not include are in fact canonical. In fact, even the Jews use the ancient "Catholic" books in their own Canon.

Where is the proof that their texts merit such authentication you might ask? Well, how about it is a well known fact now that not all Psalms were written by Jews, nor in Hebrew, nor even in Jerusalem. Thus, it is not necessary that any book be written in Hebrew to be considered canonical. Therefore, books, such as Maccabees, ought to be considered in the KJV because because of their merit in word, not because of some ancient ethnocentric view that all OT books ought to have been written in Hebrew.

Secondly, the New KJV uses Lutheran translations, which are totally inappropriate. Did you know that if Luther would have had his way, there would be seven and possibly eight fewer books in the New Testament? That's right, Luther wanted to rid the Canon of all books written by John, including Revelations and the Gospel. He also wanted to destroy the Books of Hebrews, James and Romans.

Imgaine how much less of The Word we would have if those crazy Protestants woulda had their way!

The KJV is inadequate because it does not include such necessary books as Maccabees, and because it is an inauthentic translation, not true to what was in fact said in those ancient texts.


Sincerely,

Sie Geistesswiesenschaften
(have fun translating that one!)

P.S. I'd highly recommend taking a course in Hermeneutics.

And don't forget - [b][i]Catholicism is the Original Bible Church!! Why? Because we wrote it!!!![/i] [/b]

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1206208' date='Mar 1 2007, 01:20 PM']Actually that isn't true, the Jewish people can't translate the Bible from the original Hebrew because the original Hebrew was lost. After it was discovered from the ruins of the temple, it didn't have any vowels in it, therefore the modern Hebrew speakers couldn't interpret it properly, which makes the Septuigent the most accurate translation on the planet [not to mention Jesus quoted from it].[/quote]

I would argue against that to a degree. While I can't read unpointed text very easily, it can be done. Just as we can read hieroglyphs even though no vowels were written. Hebrew is based on a triconsonantal root system, so every word with those 3 consonants is related. The root itself might be a noun, then add a prefix to make it verb, for example. The vowels that are in there now have been taken from modern Hebrew, I believe, in order to make it readable (where in Middle Egyptian we just add 'e's as needed to make it readable). The Septuagint is great, don't get me wrong, but don't discount the ability to read the Hebrew just yet.

But I suppose that's a bit off-topic. As for translations go, I would love it if more of use could read the Hebrew and Greek. I think people need to read a real translation, not a paraphrase, like the Message is. The Jerusalem Bible is my new favorite translation; I'd actually never been exposed to it until moving here, but it's great.

Edited March 2, 2007 by Archaeology cat

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='geistesswiesenschaften' post='1206707' date='Mar 2 2007, 05:14 AM']Where is the proof that their texts merit such authentication you might ask? Well, how about it is a well known fact now that not all Psalms were written by Jews, nor in Hebrew, nor even in Jerusalem. Thus, it is not necessary that any book be written in Hebrew to be considered canonical. Therefore, books, such as Maccabees, ought to be considered in the KJV because because of their merit in word, not because of some ancient ethnocentric view that all OT books ought to have been written in Hebrew.[/quote]

Quite true.