How Far Should One Go To Defend The Eucharist?

[Moneybags]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1199954' date='Feb 18 2007, 08:05 PM']Do you really think Jesus Christ needs protection? I understand the sentiment, but after all He is GOd, and will deal with the culprit. There is a big difference between someone taking Communion unworthiily and someone out to commit actual desecration.[/quote]

Yes, He does need to be protected in the Sacrament. And if the priest is not going to do anything then it is a faithful Catholic's duty to protect Our Lord from being harmed. Preventing sins occurring now would have decreased Our Lord's pain on the cross. We must prevent a sacrilege. We should be willing to give up our lives to protect the Eucharist!

[quote][i]CCC 598

In her Magisterial teaching of the faith and in the witness of her saints, the Church has never forgotten that "sinners were the authors and the ministers of all the sufferings that the divine Redeemer endured."389 Taking into account the fact that our sins affect Christ himself,390 the Church does not hesitate to impute to Christians the gravest responsibility for the torments inflicted upon Jesus, a responsibility with which they have all too often burdened the Jews alone:

We must regard as guilty all those who continue to relapse into their sins. Since our sins made the Lord Christ suffer the torment of the cross, those who plunge themselves into disorders and crimes crucify the Son of God anew in their hearts (for he is in them) and hold him up to contempt. And it can be seen that our crime in this case is greater in us than in the Jews. As for them, according to the witness of the Apostle, "None of the rulers of this age understood this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." We, however, profess to know him. And when we deny him by our deeds, we in some way seem to lay violent hands on him.391

Nor did demons crucify him; it is you who have crucified him and crucify him still, when you delight in your vices and sins.392[/i]

Each of us must realize that we continue to be the author's of Christ's Passion and Death. Jesus Christ died outside of time for all men - past, present, and future - to have the choice to be able to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And, in order to do this, Jesus Christ had to take upon Himself the death sentence each of us incurs by each and every sin we commit.

So, every action we do now has a direct effect on Jesus Christ. If I were to hit a window with a bat, it would shatter and break. The same is true of our sins. We continually wound and shatter Our Savior's body by our sins. Jesus suffered a certain amount of pain that day on Calvary, but our sins today increased the pain He suffered back then. So, if we continually sin we realistically continue to inflict pain on Our Savior in the Scourging, the Carrying of the Cross, and His Crucifixion. We take the role of his executioners if we continue to relapse in sin. We should make it our firm will that we would rather die than to sin; St. Maria Goretti did just that at the age of only 12 years.[/quote]

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1199982' date='Feb 18 2007, 07:30 PM']First you would have to know someone is non-catholic. If you know they are you can alert the priest, then he handles it from there.

Second how can you determine someone is an unrepentant public sinner, you gonna read their soul or something? What if they went to confession before Mass? You are NOT qualified to decide this.

Third, how would you know someone is going to steal a host ahead of time? Do you carry guns to church on a regular basis? You cannot commit a crime to prevent a crime.

Your zeal is commendable.[/quote]

I would only do this is I knew they were non-Catholic by my personal relation with them or if I knew they were a non-Catholic by knowing of them. A public unrepentant sinner would be someone that you know was a pimp, or a prostitute, or someone who was living in sin. Of course I don't carry guns to church and I don't even own a gun and I've never touched one in my life except at a camp. You must do anything you can to protect the Holy Eucharist.

[Moneybags]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1200002' date='Feb 18 2007, 08:36 PM']You must do anything you can to protect the Holy Eucharist.[/quote]

You couldn't be more right. It is that simple - [i]anything[/i].

[Nathan]

Haha. St. Thomas More rules.

[avemaria40]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1200002' date='Feb 18 2007, 09:36 PM']A public unrepentant sinner would be someone that you know was a pimp, or a prostitute, or someone who was living in sin.[/quote]
Again, how would you know if they didn't somehow make it to a Confessional some time before they went to Mass? Or had at least the intention of doing so, along with a perfect act of contrition?

Btw, not all prostitutes have a high level of culpability. A huge number of them have been sold into sexual slavery, which is why they do what they do.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1200002' date='Feb 18 2007, 09:36 PM']I would only do this is I knew they were non-Catholic by my personal relation with them or if I knew they were a non-Catholic by knowing of them. A public unrepentant sinner would be someone that you know was a pimp, or a prostitute, or someone who was living in sin. Of course I don't carry guns to church and I don't even own a gun and I've never touched one in my life except at a camp. You must do anything you can to protect the Holy Eucharist.[/quote]
Again. You are NOT QUALIFIED to determine who is in a state of grace.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='avemaria40' post='1200009' date='Feb 18 2007, 07:43 PM']Again, how would you know if they didn't somehow make it to a Confessional some time before they went to Mass? Or had at least the intention of doing so, along with a perfect act of contrition?

Btw, not all prostitutes have a high level of culpability. A huge number of them have been sold into sexual slavery, which is why they do what they do.[/quote]
It is unlikely that they would go to confession, but if they did, I'm sure the priest would let me know after I told him about the prostitute trying to recieve.

[quote name='Redemptoris Sacramentum']6. Complaints Regarding Abuses in Liturgical Matters

[183.] In an altogether particular manner, [u][b]let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion[/b][/u] and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favouritism.

[184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.[290] It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.[/quote]

[Moneybags]

It's clear from the above excerpt from Redemptoris Sacramentum that we must do ANYTHING, even standing in front of the person.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1200015' date='Feb 18 2007, 09:47 PM']It is unlikely that they would go to confession, but if they did, I'm sure the priest would let me know after I told him about the prostitute trying to recieve.[/quote]
Again you cannot decide if someone is a "public sinner" or not. You have no clue.

[Birgitta Noel]

The arrogance many display here is astounding.

I for one would be horribly offended if you felt that a) you had the right to inquire as to the state of my soul to the priest, which is essentially what you are doing if you are alerting the priest to the potential sin and expecting an answer that will determine whether or not you will "intervene" and b) if the priest felt that he had any obligation to inform you of the state of my soul, or if he felt he had the permission to do so. In fact, one might even argue that to do so violates the seal of the confessional.

Edited February 19, 2007 by The Little Way

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='The Little Way' post='1200073' date='Feb 18 2007, 11:01 PM']The arrogance many display here is astounding.

I for one would be horribly offended if you felt that a) you had the right to inquire as to the state of my soul to the priest, which is essentially what you are doing if you are alerting the priest to the potential sin and expecting an answer that will determine whether or not you will "intervene" and b) if the priest felt that he had any obligation to inform you of the state of my soul, or if he felt he had the permission to do so. In fact, one might even argue that to do so violates the seal of the confessional.[/quote]


all that is being suggested is alerting the priest if you know someone that is a non-catholic, or someone that YOU KNOW FOR A FACT is not in a state of grace that is trying to receive communion.

[Birgitta Noel]

Ummm, no.

1. STM said [quote]It is unlikely that they would go to confession, but if they did, I'm sure the priest would let me know after I told him about the prostitute trying to recieve.[/quote]

2. YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING whether or not a person is in a state of grace unless you absolved him or her personally. Last time I checked you weren't a priest.

[jmjtina]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1199884' date='Feb 18 2007, 04:42 PM']Let's say sacrilege is going to be committed, how far should one go to stop it from happening?

im not talking about someone entering a church and stealing the Eucharist. What if a Non-Catholic plans on receiving the Eucharist? How far should one go to stop him/her?
thanks[/quote]


usually a non-catholic who plans to recieve has no clue to our rules and have probably been exposed to those Protestant cracker and grape juice ceremonies.

sometimes a simple explanation will suffice. Sometimes a smack to the face will suffice.

whatever works.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='jmjtina' post='1200082' date='Feb 18 2007, 11:14 PM']usually a non-catholic who plans to recieve has no clue to our rules and have probably been exposed to those Protestant cracker and grape juice ceremonies.

sometimes a simple explanation will suffice. Sometimes a smack to the face will suffice.

whatever works.[/quote]


Some of them do not know, and for that i don't blame them. but other's think "it's a stupid rule" then the smack is needed.

[CatholicCid]

I don't think one should stop a Catholic from recieving, for that decision is between them and God. You can inform them of reasoning and such, but in the end, you cannot judge their soul.
They could have just shot a man and then have a full turn of heart, and hold a true perfect act of contrition in their heart. I would also not ask the Priest if so and so had confessed or expect him to tell me, due to the Seal of the Confessional.

As for a Non-Catholic, I would explain it to them, inform the priest if possible, beg them, plead them, and use some physical force if necessary (while preventing scandal... Ie - I won't punch them in the face in the communion line). If a child is going to put his hand into a flame, I will wrench it back to keep him from getting burned. But if one is truly determined, then I would pray that they would see the truth.