Birgitta Noel Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 [quote name='Revprodeji' post='1198677' date='Feb 17 2007, 09:54 PM']In the mighty scale of all the things we could fix in the church right now (Not the church, but the people) WHy are we worried about this? If it is an issue of laity being unworthy to touch, then we should remember that we are unworthy to eat. We are unworthy to digest. In all respect. We mushy mud pie the remains. There is a fine line between doctrine and fundamentalism and I worry we cross it here. If this is such a big deal, why isnt there a change? I honestly wish that all churches where old school with high ceilings, icons everywhere all the smells and bells and reflection. But this is not how it is in many churches. In many churches and with most laity we are in a direct battle against the local baptist church. Most laity do not study theology, but if they are told that they can be involved in the baptist church, but can not in the catholic church. What do they do? If the faithful can particiapate in the mass I think it is a good thing. I think it is something we should embrace based on our current situation. If we choose not to battle directly and passionatly then let us battle in the small matters of a person's experience.[/quote] I'll second that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 [quote name='Aloysius' post='1198397' date='Feb 17 2007, 05:14 PM']of course, the bishops ought to be instituting Acolytes for these situations of continued necessity. extra-ordinary ministers are not to be used weekly or daily. that makes them ordinary and the Church has been clear against that.[/quote] I will back you up there. I just read the section of Redemptionis sacramentum on EMHC to get the low-down and obviously what is going on at parishes I am around is not what it had in mind. EMHC are being scheduled. The question I have is what can the priest do about it when he legimately needs them? Can a priest institute lay acolytes or must the bishop do it? I think we need to recruit acolytes, as I assume many do not know what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 If we fix the problem of cafeteria-Catholicism and fire people up in the faith, there will be enough vocations to make this a non-issue. The root of the problem is that while we have a rich harvest, the laborers are few. Finding laborers (priests, deacons, acolytes) should be the concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birgitta Noel Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 [quote name='thedude' post='1198703' date='Feb 17 2007, 10:11 PM']If we fix the problem of cafeteria-Catholicism and fire people up in the faith, there will be enough vocations to make this a non-issue. The root of the problem is that while we have a rich harvest, the laborers are few. Finding laborers (priests, deacons, acolytes) should be the concern.[/quote] Yuppers. Now, I ask again. What precisely defines an Acolyte and how are they instituted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 (edited) [quote name='The Little Way' post='1198714' date='Feb 17 2007, 10:27 PM']Yuppers. Now, I ask again. What precisely defines an Acolyte and how are they instituted?[/quote] I have never actually seen one (to my knowledge) and I am not sure how they are instituted. I would like to know more about them. Edited February 18, 2007 by thedude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Acolytes are instituted by the bishop. And in some cases they are a third less calories than a regular acol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birgitta Noel Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 [quote name='hot stuff' post='1198770' date='Feb 17 2007, 11:23 PM']Acolytes are instituted by the bishop. And in some cases they are a third less calories than a regular acol[/quote] HAHAHA Ok, but tell us more. Are they men? (I'm assuming yes) Are they over 18? Seminarians? Are they anointed? Do they make some sort of promises? Are they instituted for life? For a limited time period? Inquiring minds want to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 im not going to lie, that was a good one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Acolyte used to be one of the minor orders on the road to the priesthood along with other liturgical positions like lector and cantor. Paul VI supressed the minor orders so that a lay male catholic can be instituted in the role. In the united states, a Bishop can institute any lay male 25 years of age and older to the position of acolyte. There ought to be a system of formation in place to be sure they are orthodox and also teach them how to take on the role of acolyte. what does the acolyte do in the mass? basically everything an altar boy does: altar boys are modeled after acolytes. plus he can help in the distribution of communion if absolutley necessary. it is a permanent stable ministry; but the man is a layman with no indulable mark of orders. bishops have not instituted good acolyte formation programs, however, preferring to instead tolerate the ordinary use of extra-ordinary in-case-of-emergency-only lay ministers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 I believe that Bishop Vasa in Oregon has instituted a strong program of acolytes. He also has his extraordinary ministers sign a statement of faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 [quote name='Aloysius' post='1198234' date='Feb 17 2007, 03:23 PM']haha you spelled it phonetically like how people say it... germs are gross GIRM General Instruction on the Roman Missal[/quote] People say it like GERM? I have always heard it like "girl" but with an m instead of the l. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 I maybe wrong about the blessing, however Extraordinary Ministers/"Lay Ministers" may only be used in extraordinary cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Where is the rule that acolytes must be 25 stipulated? Can it be amended by national councils of bishops? What should university parishes do? Are altar boys an appropriate substitute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moneybags Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1199630' date='Feb 18 2007, 01:00 PM']I maybe wrong about the blessing, however Extraordinary Ministers/"Lay Ministers" may only be used in extraordinary cases.[/quote] Exactly, and Ash Wednesday is a regular day that can easily be planned for in advance. There is no need for EMHCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 25 was set by the USCCB. I'll consider altar boys in a university setting to answer your question... altar boys are supposed to act after the manner of an acolyte. just as acolytes do not normally distribute communion except in case of necessity; neither do altar boys. altar boys, just by being altar boys, are not capable of distributing communion (especially considering most are not old enough, but like I said-- university setting). however, it would seem that since they are meant to serve after the manner of an acolyte, they ought to be the first considered (if they are old enough) to be used in case of absolute necessity as EMHCs because that would preserve the liturgical symbolism better than a regular ordinary layperson not serving after the manner of acolyte (an altar boy is a clearer extension of the clergy) but that's only if it's not possible to get acolytes... and they're only if it's not possible to get deacons... and they're only if it's not possible to get priests. in any event, there are almost always a million better choices than emergency lay person EMHCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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