Maggyie Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 [quote name='StThomasMore' post='1197311' date='Feb 16 2007, 10:06 PM']The altar rail signifies the line that women are never to cross excpet at their wedding (if they have one). Women cannot distribute Communion becuase priests alone can distribute Communion; they cannot read the Epistle or Gospel becuase those are to be read by the subdeacon and deacon (who are men becuase one is a sacramental only for men and the other is a sacrament only for men); they cannot place sacred vessels on the altar before Mass becuase no layman may touch the sacred vessels; they cannot collect donations since that job is culturally reserved for male laymen. Women can, however, kneel in thier pew and follow along in the Missal during Mass. The can also sing in the choir, but cannot be a part of the schola. Outside of marragie women can be nuns. They can also be single persons.[/quote] I think the altar rail is supposed to differentiate the sanctuary from the rest of the church... for everyone, not just girls... Personally I think one of the greatest roles in the Church (for both men and women) is that of catechist. What a wonderful privilege it is to pass on the Faith in all its richness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1197313' date='Feb 16 2007, 09:07 PM'] When you decide to be serious you are awesome [/quote] surprising isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 [quote name='StThomasMore' post='1197311' date='Feb 16 2007, 09:06 PM']The altar rail signifies the line that women are never to cross excpet at their wedding (if they have one). Women cannot distribute Communion becuase priests alone can distribute Communion; they cannot read the Epistle or Gospel becuase those are to be read by the subdeacon and deacon (who are men becuase one is a sacramental only for men and the other is a sacrament only for men); they cannot place sacred vessels on the altar before Mass becuase no layman may touch the sacred vessels; they cannot collect donations since that job is culturally reserved for male laymen. Women can, however, kneel in thier pew and follow along in the Missal during Mass. The can also sing in the choir, but cannot be a part of the schola.[/quote] um, wrong. [quote]Outside of marragie women can be nuns. They can also be single persons.[/quote] right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philosophette Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) [quote name='StThomasMore' post='1197311' date='Feb 16 2007, 09:06 PM']The altar rail signifies the line that women are never to cross excpet at their wedding (if they have one). Women cannot distribute Communion becuase priests alone can distribute Communion; they cannot read the Epistle or Gospel becuase those are to be read by the subdeacon and deacon (who are men becuase one is a sacramental only for men and the other is a sacrament only for men); they cannot place sacred vessels on the altar before Mass becuase no layman may touch the sacred vessels; they cannot collect donations since that job is culturally reserved for male laymen. Women can, however, kneel in thier pew and follow along in the Missal during Mass. The can also sing in the choir, but cannot be a part of the schola. Outside of marragie women can be nuns. They can also be single persons.[/quote] You know, when God made women I think that he made them for a whole lot more than just kneeling and praying. Like Jamie said, we can be catechists, we can lead social justice groups, we can organize events... It is obvious that you are speaking from a Pre-Vat II mindset, as lay people can now read the Epistle, and I think it is perfectly fine for women to do so. How about nuns like St Therese touching the sacred vessels? How do you explain that? Only if they are a virgin nun? What about if they are a widow who becomes a nun? I think that there are excepts for such things. I do not think that every person should be doing the divine dishes but there are women who have been able to touch them when necessary. And there is also the vision of St Barbara giving St Stanislaus Holy Communion. Saying that they cannot collect donations because it is a culturally male thing does not mean that it is not possible that it may be done by females sometime in the future. Edited February 17, 2007 by philosobrat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mroger Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Wow! Where DO you go to church? These opinions may appear to be binding to the Church, but that's not necessarily the case. Paul also writes about the limit of law, among other things. Anyway, it appears that you have a very *skewed* perception of the church, I'm sorry that this is what you feel. However, what exactly DO you want? DO you want women priests? I hear the rant, but I see no end and no means to an end, there is only a rant. My point is..and I know this sounds harsh from the background that you have presented...what is the point of these emotions that you have posted? In other words...what is your motivation? Sincerely, Sie geistesswiessenschaften Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 [quote name='hot stuff' post='1197360' date='Feb 16 2007, 10:27 PM']surprising isn't it?[/quote] YES : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 [quote name='philosobrat' post='1197417' date='Feb 16 2007, 10:59 PM']You know, when God made women I think that he made them for a whole lot more than just kneeling and praying. Like Jamie said, we can be catechists, we can lead social justice groups, we can organize events... It is obvious that you are speaking from a Pre-Vat II mindset, as lay people can now read the Epistle, and I think it is perfectly fine for women to do so. How about nuns like St Therese touching the sacred vessels? How do you explain that? Only if they are a virgin nun? What about if they are a widow who becomes a nun? I think that there are excepts for such things. I do not think that every person should be doing the divine dishes but there are women who have been able to touch them when necessary. And there is also the vision of St Barbara giving St Stanislaus Holy Communion. Saying that they cannot collect donations because it is a culturally male thing does not mean that it is not possible that it may be done by females sometime in the future.[/quote] Philo remember you are talking to someone who does NOT rep the teachings of the Church, at least in this century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 [quote name='philosobrat' post='1197417' date='Feb 16 2007, 08:59 PM']You know, when God made women I think that he made them for a whole lot more than just kneeling and praying. Like Jamie said, we can be catechists, we can lead social justice groups, we can organize events... It is obvious that you are speaking from a Pre-Vat II mindset, as lay people can now read the Epistle, and I think it is perfectly fine for women to do so. How about nuns like St Therese touching the sacred vessels? How do you explain that? Only if they are a virgin nun? What about if they are a widow who becomes a nun? I think that there are excepts for such things. I do not think that every person should be doing the divine dishes but there are women who have been able to touch them when necessary. And there is also the vision of St Barbara giving St Stanislaus Holy Communion. Saying that they cannot collect donations because it is a culturally male thing does not mean that it is not possible that it may be done by females sometime in the future.[/quote] I thought you were talking about in the physical church building itself, specifically during Mass. The job of catechizing is mainly for priests, though women may assist in educating their children. Of course women can lead protests and organize events. I don't think St Therese ever touched sacred vessels, though I may be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philosophette Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 One of her duties was of sacristan. [url="http://www.thelittleway.com/images/products/301.jpg"]http://www.thelittleway.com/images/products/301.jpg[/url] She would prepare the sacred vessels before the Mass for the priest and then pass them through a turn to him. It is in her "Story of a Soul". It would be great if priests did more catechizing, but that does not seem to be what they do anymore. Which is very sad.v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moneybags Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 [quote name='philosobrat' post='1197760' date='Feb 17 2007, 09:30 AM']It would be great if priests did more catechizing, but that does not seem to be what they do anymore. Which is very sad.v [/quote] I completely understand! I've had to teach myself the Faith over the years. As a priest I want to catechise straight from the ambo each Sunday. I think I'll read parts of liturgical law, Council documents, and/or the Catechism of St. Pius X or even the Baltimore Catechism. People like me [b]want[/b] to be taught the Faith, but it isn't begin taught anymore. Where I live, the CCD program is a joke. Children are just passed along each year and learn virtually nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philosophette Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 [quote name='St. Benedict' post='1197771' date='Feb 17 2007, 09:38 AM']I completely understand! I've had to teach myself the Faith over the years. As a priest I want to catechise straight from the ambo each Sunday. I think I'll read parts of liturgical law, Council documents, and/or the Catechism of St. Pius X or even the Baltimore Catechism. People like me [b]want[/b] to be taught the Faith, but it isn't begin taught anymore. Where I live, the CCD program is a joke. Children are just passed along each year and learn virtually nothing.[/quote] I am of a similar experience. The priests in my life have not been the best examples of Christian charity, zeal, forgiveness, or humility. It has left me somewhat disgusted and disappointed. I taught Religious Ed for a while. I had 5th graders and I was surprised that even though they had been in the program for years they had no idea what a saint was, did not understand the Eucharist... it was a shock, esp as it was a more conservative parish. A priest who actually teaches the faith with a passion (like Fr Corapi) is a real gift; there are not enough of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 [quote name='philosobrat' post='1197778' date='Feb 17 2007, 09:42 AM']I am of a similar experience. The priests in my life have not been the best examples of Christian charity, zeal, forgiveness, or humility. It has left me somewhat disgusted and disappointed. I taught Religious Ed for a while. I had 5th graders and I was surprised that even though they had been in the program for years they had no idea what a saint was, did not understand the Eucharist... it was a shock, esp as it was a more conservative parish. A priest who actually teaches the faith with a passion (like Fr Corapi) is a real gift; there are not enough of them![/quote] I have been lucky enough to have some excellent priests...although I also know several who could use quite a bit of improvement. I taught 3rd grade Religious Ed for a year, and while we tried, it was darn near impossible to get anything accomplished, because there was no way to hold the kids accountable. They were talking about, at my parish, insituting tests that the children would have to take at the end of each year, but I don't know if that has happened yet. I do know that they need to take a test now to get confirmed in our parish, on the basics of Catholicism. I also know that they had to play MAJOR catch-up the year that was started. We are a more middle of the road parish, with our priest being fairly conservative but our Faith Formation director being fairly liberal. Although, the day Pope Benedict XVI was elected, she made some crack about it, and our preist basically told her that if she wanted to keep her job, she would do what she was told, when she was told. That has been working quite nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Gone Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 after four pages has this topic progressed anything for anyone? This issue is a tough one for converts. I can understand in a sacramental sense why women can not be priests (ironically the same argument can be used for non-jews, but hey whatever) but How do you leave this discussion with women feeling blessed and honored and not just like second class citizens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 the same way the ordinary layman is not left feeling like a second class citizen. this is the great vocation of the lay priesthood- to be receptive and responsive in the liturgy and carry what is administered to you in the liturgy out into the world. you go to the liturgy and receive grace and then you go and grace the world with your sanctified presence. the problem with modern gender wars; and laization of the liturgy; is that people are not embrasing and exploring their proper sacred vocatiion and bringing it out to its fullest potential. women want to be just like men; feminism is in reality a masculinization of the feminine sex, all the while destroying all the beautiful things which are distinctly feminine and demasculinizing men... instead they ought to look for something distinctly feminine. laity want to be just like priests and the same concept applies; they're losing their lay vocattion as we loose more and more priestly vocations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 [quote name='StThomasMore' post='1197637' date='Feb 17 2007, 01:50 AM']The job of catechizing is mainly for priests, though women may assist in educating their children. Of course women can lead protests and organize events.[/quote] Since when? You have never heard of CCD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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