Birgitta Noel Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1193186' date='Feb 12 2007, 11:20 PM'] Well maybe, but to put someone in jail for something they didn't do is also not a sin on part of the prisoner. Now, in somewhat the same sense it could be said the same is kinda true, the girl is being seen as a sinner, being forced against her will to take something she does not need.[/quote] I'm not following your analogy here unless you're agreeing with me. [quote]To take the pills would be to omit a lie. She has not sinned in fornication, but she is being accused of that, if she takes the pills, she will lose some sort of innocents. And I'm pretty sure the Church commends the use of "the pill." I don't believe it matters what the use is for... I could be wrong but I do not think so... [/quote] The girl is not committing a lie as you suggest, she is not being accused of it either, the parents are assuming she'll do it. If she takes the pill she is not sinning, as she is not contracepting, on the other hand if she doesn't take the pill I believe we could also argue that she is not sinning by disobeying her parents. Yes, she may be loosing some of her innocence, that is possible, but that is not her sin, that is her parents sin perhaps for taking some of it from her (though that too is a different matter). The Church does not condemn (not commend) the use of the pill in general as you suggest. It surely recognizes the risks associated with its use etc, but there is not an overall condemnation of the pill. The Church recognizes that there may be legitimate uses of the pill for non-contraceptive reasons. Similarly the Church does not condemn the removal of a woman's ovaries or a man's testicles for non-contraceptive purposes, ie if they are cancerous. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prose Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I would recommend her getting the "Contraception: Why Not" Cd by Janet Smith. It is free to order online (just do a Google Search for the title". It is the most clear, concise explanation that I have ever heard about contraception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 (edited) [quote name='The Little Way' post='1193197' date='Feb 13 2007, 12:27 AM'] The girl is not committing a lie as you suggest, she is not being accused of it either, the parents are assuming she'll do it. If she takes the pill she is not sinning, as she is not contracepting, on the other hand if she doesn't take the pill I believe we could also argue that she is not sinning by disobeying her parents. [/quote] The girl would be partaking in the lie, taking the pill would be omitting that her mother is right, when that is not true. She should not be punished for something she is not guilty of, she should not "omit" that is admit (I hope) to something she is not guilty of. For everything else you pointed out IDK, maybe... But the reason she would be taking the pill is for contraception, sex or no sex. Her mother believes she needs the pill for contraception, she says no I do not I am not having sex, her mothers doesn't believe that, if the daughter folds takes the pills she admit to a lie. It would go back to the point of the innocent prisoner, all his got to do is to admit to the murder and he can have a chance go be set free. If he admits to the crime, he is saying he is guilty of the crime. The daughter is being accused of fornication, but she is innocent. If she takes the pill she is saying, admitting she is guilty. That is wrong, to be truthful to Herself, her mother and God she can not take the pill. Edited February 13, 2007 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 If she is being forced to take the pill by her mother, she is not sinning. One must use free will to sin. To commit a mortal sin, one must know its a sin and choose to do so freely. And I would humbly suggest that folks make use of the spellcheck feature here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birgitta Noel Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='hot stuff' post='1193232' date='Feb 13 2007, 12:10 AM'] And I would humbly suggest that folks make use of the spellcheck feature here. [/quote] Spell check wouldn't help, it's an issue of word choice. K of C I think you're trying to say "admit"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='hot stuff' post='1193232' date='Feb 13 2007, 01:10 AM'] If she is being forced to take the pill by her mother, she is not sinning. One must use free will to sin. To commit a mortal sin, one must know its a sin and choose to do so freely. And I would humbly suggest that folks make use of the spellcheck feature here. [/quote] I try but is late, and I never good at grammer or spelling [quote name='The Little Way' post='1193234' date='Feb 13 2007, 01:12 AM'] Spell check wouldn't help, it's an issue of word choice. K of C I think you're trying to say "admit"? [/quote] durrr yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1193235' date='Feb 13 2007, 01:16 AM'] I try but is late, and I never good at grammer or spelling durrr yeah... [/quote] No kidding! : English must be your 3rd language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 But my point is it would be wrong for her to admit to something she is not guilty of. Now what do we mean by "force", what she the mother will put a gun to the daughters head? No. All that the mother can really do is kick her out if she doesnt admit to what shes innocent of. Now, what if instead, the mother said ok, I know you dont believe God, I know you are an atheist, now if you want to live in my house and eat my food, you'll admit to me you are an atheist, you will renounce God or get out. [quote name='Anomaly' post='1193240' date='Feb 13 2007, 01:18 AM'] No kidding! : English must be your 3rd language. [/quote] Me Fail English? That's Unpossible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1193243' date='Feb 13 2007, 01:23 AM'] But my point is it would be wrong for her to admit to something she is not guilty of. Now what do we mean by "force", what she the mother will put a gun to the daughters head? No. All that the mother can really do is kick her out if she doesnt admit to what shes innocent of. Now, what if instead, the mother said ok, I know you dont believe God, I know you are an atheist, now if you want to live in my house and eat my food, you'll admit to me you are an atheist, you will renounce God or get out. Me Fail English? That's Unpossible! [/quote] Quite a conundrum, isn't it? Which is the greater evil? To take the pill in obedience to your parents, or to have people who may discover you take the pill think you are a sexually active outside of marriage? Or possibly you don't really know what the RC Church teaches about birth control pills. Do you think that it may be addressed in the RC Catechism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddington Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='The Little Way' post='1193098' date='Feb 13 2007, 02:09 AM'] If she is not having sex she is not contracepting and thus not contradicting Church teaching. [/quote] I think that should settle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 BTW I doubt seriously that the Mother of this girl would kick her out. If the daughter said to her I am innocent, I am a virgin, I do not have sex, I will never take the pill. You will have to tie me to the floor and ram it down my mouth before I take one of them. Well maybe thats a bit strong but the point is there. The Daughter should stand up for her innocents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddington Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='Anomaly' post='1193249' date='Feb 13 2007, 03:56 AM'] or to have people who may discover you take the pill think you are a sexually active outside of marriage? [/quote] People thought worse things about Christ. And it is all about IF they discover. Seems to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 (edited) [quote name='Anomaly' post='1193249' date='Feb 13 2007, 01:26 AM'] Quite a conundrum, isn't it? Which is the greater evil? To take the pill in obedience to your parents, or to have people who may discover you take the pill think you are a sexually active outside of marriage? Or possibly you don't really know what the RC Church teaches about birth control pills. Do you think that it may be addressed in the RC Catechism? [/quote] Why don't you enlighten me o wise one? It wouldn't much matter my point has more to do with the fact it is not right to admit to something you are innocent of. [quote name='Paddington' post='1193257' date='Feb 13 2007, 01:33 AM'] People thought worse things about Christ. And it is all about IF they discover. Seems to me. [/quote] Ah yes but He never admitted to being a sinner, because He wasn't. And in this case of the girl is innocent of the sin she is being accused of. Edited February 13, 2007 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='hot stuff' post='1193232' date='Feb 13 2007, 12:10 AM'] If she is being forced to take the pill by her mother, she is not sinning. One must use free will to sin. To commit a mortal sin, one must know its a sin and choose to do so freely. And I would humbly suggest that folks make use of the spellcheck feature here. [/quote] What spellcheck feature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddington Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1193260' date='Feb 13 2007, 04:09 AM'] Ah yes but He never admitted to being a sinner, because He wasn't. And in this case of the girl is innocent of the sin she is being accused of. [/quote] I still don't see how she is admitting to anything. One of my best friends in high school used to say about his dad, "that stuff used to bother me, but now I just accept that he is crazy." I don't know if that is exactly the right thing to say about your own parents, but you know what I mean. I'm waiting for somebody to give proof that it is against Church teaching to use the pill when not having sex. I still think that is what it boils down to. Her parents will hopefully change their tune, but she could just enjoy not having periods until that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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