Did Early Christian View Matter As Being Evil?

[Mateo el Feo]

OK, so I usually trust old text, so I had some hope in a 65 year old book called [url="http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Teachings-Great-Philosophers-Frost/dp/038503007X/sr=1-1/qid=1171221575/ref=sr_1_1/102-0087848-9919312?ie=UTF8&s=books"]"Basic Teachings of the Great Philosophers"[/url] by S. E. Frost. Of course, age isn't a guarantee of trustworthiness, so I hit a couple problematic assertions. I will place each topic in its own thread for sanity.

The first issue is a claim that the Early Christians viewed matter as being evil. The quote (page 58):[quote]
[b]Man's Importance According to the Early Christian Thinkers[/b]

Although all these Greek philosophers recognized the fact that man is both matter and spirit, they emphasized the spirit, and were optimistic in the belief that man could overcome the disadvantages of matter. Christianity had no such optimism. For it, matter loomed large and foreboding and life was a constant struggle to escape its implications. Indeed, for Christianity, God, or the divine, was so pure and matter so far from God, that pessimism was the only possible outcome.

Matter, for the Christian thinkers, was the principle of evil. So long as man was in part matter he was evil and needed redemption. When the soul became attached to matter, it fell from divine grace, and the only way back was through some special act of the divine which would negate matter and release man from its clutches.[/quote]

Leave aside the swipe at Christianity for being "pessimistic." Last I checked, this view of "matter being evil" was anti-Christian, and was repudiated by the early Church, most noteably when it rejected belief systems such as Manichaeism and gnosticism.

In my view, at worst, the author's claim is a lie. At best, it's a gross misrepresentation of what early Christians believed. They might have seen evil in the world, but they didn't forget that the world was God's Creation (e.g. in Genesis, God saw how good it was).

Comments?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Yeah, that definitely is contrary to early Christian thought. We believe that concupiscence must be overcome, but matter is clearly not evil.

[goldenchild17]

mhmm, God created all things good. It's only the absence of using the good correctly that is evil.

Edited February 11, 2007 by goldenchild17

[Guest JeffCR07]

This assertion is, quite simply, wrong. Not only has authentic Christian interpretation emphasized the goodness of the created world (e.g. the Christian response to Albigensianism), but even secular scholars, like Jamake Highwater in his "Body as Sin" recognize that early Christian thinkers, like Clement of Alexandria, did not take a negative view that is stereotypically ascribed to Christians.

Moreover, it was Plotinus, a greek Neoplatonist, who first explicitly and clearly articulated a philosophy that identified matter with evil.

Your Brother In Christ,

Jeff

[beatty07]

yep. No need to visit his intentions, but he's quite mistaken. Lots of times people are unclear about how they define "Christianity." If it means "everybody who claims to be orthodox Christianity" then the gnostics have to be included, as well as all the other heresies. It's exactly the same dynamic we see today in lots of polls, that'll say something like "2 out of 3 Catholics think the Pope is dumb" or whatever nonsense. They just ask people "Are you Catholic?", not "have you been to Mass this year?" or even "do you believe in God?"

This guy is probably also misunderstanding John's use of "the world" (kosmos) and Paul's use of "the flesh" (sarx). If you read the Bible outside the Church, it's really pretty understandable to end up in dualism.

Funny how troubles never seem to change much.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1191680' date='Feb 11 2007, 03:53 PM']
OK, so I usually trust old text, so I had some hope in a 65 year old book called [url="http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Teachings-Great-Philosophers-Frost/dp/038503007X/sr=1-1/qid=1171221575/ref=sr_1_1/102-0087848-9919312?ie=UTF8&s=books"]"Basic Teachings of the Great Philosophers"[/url] by S. E. Frost. Of course, age isn't a guarantee of trustworthiness, so I hit a couple problematic assertions. I will place each topic in its own thread for sanity.

The first issue is a claim that the Early Christians viewed matter as being evil. The quote (page 58):

Leave aside the swipe at Christianity for being "pessimistic." Last I checked, this view of "matter being evil" was anti-Christian, and was repudiated by the early Church, most noteably when it rejected belief systems such as Manichaeism and gnosticism.

In my view, at worst, the author's claim is a lie. At best, it's a gross misrepresentation of what early Christians believed. They might have seen evil in the world, but they didn't forget that the world was God's Creation (e.g. in Genesis, God saw how good it was).

Comments?
[/quote]
That quote is pure nonsense. As you said, it describes gnosticism/Manichaeism rather than the Christian religion.
The author was likely writing with a not-so-subtle anti-Christian bias, and thus distorting the truth to bash Christianity.

A book being 65 years old, is no guarantee of its soundness (particularly a secular book; though a Catholic imprimatur would have meant more then than today).
Anti-Christian thought was quite alive 65-100 years ago, particularly among "intellectuals," though it might not have crept into the popular culture as much as today.

Most contemporary atheistic arguments against Christianity are really a recycling of ideas 100-200 years old.