Altar Girls

[Aloysius]

it's not wrong in the effects it has on YOU necessarily (unless it made you want to be a priest or something), but in the effects it has on the liturgy. there are parishes who have altar boy programs which also have alternative programs for young girls where you would get all of those same benefits without disrupting the liturgy in that way.

either way, it's not you who disrupted the liturgy, but people in high places who made these decisions. whether or not you individually serve doesn't have much of a bearing on the whole thing. but ultimately, it would be better for the whole Church for boys only to serve at the altar; there are countless ways to get closer in your understanding of the mass than serving at the altar.

[iggyjoan]

[quote name='Brigid' post='1237938' date='Apr 10 2007, 04:23 PM']I can see the point that many of you are making...

However.

I am a female altar server, and it has been such a blessing to me!! I would be crushed if I had to give it up. I started serving in fifth grade, and since then I've served at countless sunday masses, many funerals, two healing masses, three easter vigil masses, two christmas midnight masses, one holy thursday mass, one good friday service, and even a mass for JPII on the wednesday after he died. A year or two ago, I would altar serve every weekend because someone who was supposed to serve wouldn't show up.

I love altar serving, and it has brought me so much closer to God. I honestly wouldn't understand or appreciate the Mass as much as I do now if I had not started altar serving.

It's hard for me to see how something that has brought so much good to my life could possibly be considered wrong.[/quote]


YES! will you be my new best friend?

[iggyjoan]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1237985' date='Apr 10 2007, 05:42 PM']it's not wrong in the effects it has on YOU necessarily (unless it made you want to be a priest or something), but in the effects it has on the liturgy. there are parishes who have altar boy programs which also have alternative programs for young girls where you would get all of those same benefits without disrupting the liturgy in that way.

either way, it's not you who disrupted the liturgy, but people in high places who made these decisions. whether or not you individually serve doesn't have much of a bearing on the whole thing. but ultimately, it would be better for the whole Church for boys only to serve at the altar; there are countless ways to get closer in your understanding of the mass than serving at the altar.[/quote]

i still don't get how girls serving disrupts the litergy. at my parish we have a LOT more girl servers then boy servers. i really dont think it matters who serves the mass, just that it is served.

[Knight of the Holy Rosary]

[quote]at my parish we have a LOT more girl servers then boy servers[/quote]Why do you suppose that is? Do think this is a good thing? What boy would want to serve if he thinks it is a girls job?

[quote]i really dont think it matters who serves the mass, just that it is served[/quote]

This is exactly the problem. No need for distinction! Just another 'volunteer oppurtunity' for the youth. This degrades the role of serving at the altar.
You cannot deny the vocational impact altar serving has. I challenge you to ask any priest you know if serving at the altar as a boy had an impact on his vocation. I guarantee you 9 out of 10 will say it has.

Women do not have a future at the altar. What happens when a young girl thinks she has a vocation to the priesthood? It would all be a tease. You can serve at the Altar....you just have no future at the altar. Seems a bit cruel to me.

[iggyjoan]

[quote name='Knight of the Holy Rosary' post='1242881' date='Apr 14 2007, 02:07 PM']Why do you suppose that is? Do think this is a good thing? What boy would want to serve if he thinks it is a girls job?
This is exactly the problem. No need for distinction! Just another 'volunteer oppurtunity' for the youth. This degrades the role of serving at the altar.
You cannot deny the vocational impact altar serving has. I challenge you to ask any priest you know if serving at the altar as a boy had an impact on his vocation. I guarantee you 9 out of 10 will say it has.

Women do not have a future at the altar. What happens when a young girl thinks she has a vocation to the priesthood? It would all be a tease. You can serve at the Altar....you just have no future at the altar. Seems a bit cruel to me.[/quote]

It is a good thing. Its a good way for girls to get involved with the church.We know we arn't going to be priests, were not stupid. It feels good to be doing somethign for the Lord during Holy Mass.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='iggyjoan' post='1236555' date='Apr 9 2007, 04:49 PM']okay first, how many grown men would want to serve? not many, at least not where i live.

and secondly, um, hello vatican II! hello 21st century! and keeping her mouth shut? are you sexist? seriously, are you?[/quote]

I know of several adult men who serve...

Um hello, the Second Vatican Council didn't change anything and the Missal of 1962 fits the changes called for in [i]Sacrosanctum Concilium[/i]. Hello, the Church is CATHOLIC! she exits outside of time! she does not change! so saying hello 21st century is totally irrelevant! No, I'm not a sexist, but many may consider me that because I believe in upholding the traditions of the Church and the traditions of traditional European culture.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='iggyjoan' post='1236555' date='Apr 9 2007, 04:49 PM']okay first, how many grown men would want to serve? not many, at least not where i live.

and secondly, um, hello vatican II! hello 21st century! and keeping her mouth shut? are you sexist? seriously, are you?[/quote]

I know of several adult men who serve...

Um hello, the Second Vatican Council didn't change anything and the Missal of 1962 fits the changes called for in [i]Sacrosanctum Concilium[/i]. Hello, the Church is CATHOLIC! she exits outside of time! she does not change! so saying hello 21st century is totally irrelevant! No, I'm not a sexist, but many may consider me that because I believe in upholding the traditions of the Church and the traditions of traditional European culture.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='iggyjoan' post='1236555' date='Apr 9 2007, 04:49 PM']okay first, how many grown men would want to serve? not many, at least not where i live.

and secondly, um, hello vatican II! hello 21st century! and keeping her mouth shut? are you sexist? seriously, are you?[/quote]

I know of several adult men who serve...

Um hello, the Second Vatican Council didn't change anything and the Missal of 1962 fits the changes called for in [i]Sacrosanctum Concilium[/i]. Hello, the Church is CATHOLIC! she exits outside of time! she does not change! so saying hello 21st century is totally irrelevant! No, I'm not a sexist, but many may consider me that because I believe in upholding the traditions of the Church and the traditions of traditional European culture.

[Didymus]

whats traditional European culture; U talkin like patriarchal families and whatnot?

[iggyjoan]

well where I live adult men do not serve.


Thomas More, you're not catholic, are you? You sound pretty sexist to me. Women are not meant to keep their mouths shut, about the church or anythign else. we have opinions and they deserve to be heard.

the word CATHOLIC means universal, meaning EVERYBODY and EVERYTHING is welcome to serve the Lord. that means girls too.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='iggyjoan' post='1243001' date='Apr 14 2007, 01:00 PM']well where I live adult men do not serve.
Thomas More, you're not catholic, are you? You sound pretty sexist to me. Women are not meant to keep their mouths shut, about the church or anythign else. we have opinions and they deserve to be heard.

the word CATHOLIC means universal, meaning EVERYBODY and EVERYTHING is welcome to serve the Lord. that means girls too.[/quote]

What do you mean by: "You're not Catholic, are you?". In my profile my personal statement is: "I believe in all the Dogmata and Doctrines of the Holy Catholic Church; and I acknowledge His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI to be the valid Vicar of Christ, Successor of St. Peter and Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church. I assist at a Traditional Latin Mass by indult of His Excellency my Bishop. My signature is a Prayer for the Pope. My avatar is the coat of arms of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, a fraternity of priests in communion with the Pontiff who say the Traditional Latin Mass. And you can't tell that I'm a Catholic?

No, I am not a sexist.

Women are to keep their silence in chrurches, the Scriptures say so.

[quote][b]Douay-Rheims Bible; I Corinthians 14, 34-35:[/b]
34 Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith. 35 But if they would learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church.
[url="http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=53&ch=14&l=34&f=s#x"]http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk...;l=34&f=s#x[/url][/quote]

Of course the word Catholic means universal. It means that all men of all times are called to be members of the Church and that the Church exists outside of time and does not change.

[quote]whats traditional European culture; U talkin like patriarchal families and whatnot?[/quote]

Traditional European culture is assisitng at the Traditional Latin Mass, praying the Rosary as a family, having a bonfire on St. John's Eve, eating crepes on Epiphany, and all other Catholic traditions that originated in Europe. The reason why traditional European culture is the greatest culture is becuase it grew and evolved with the Church and became fully Catholic.

[iggyjoan]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1243048' date='Apr 14 2007, 04:41 PM']What do you mean by: "You're not Catholic, are you?". In my profile my personal statement is: "I believe in all the Dogmata and Doctrines of the Holy Catholic Church; and I acknowledge His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI to be the valid Vicar of Christ, Successor of St. Peter and Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church. I assist at a Traditional Latin Mass by indult of His Excellency my Bishop. My signature is a Prayer for the Pope. My avatar is the coat of arms of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, a fraternity of priests in communion with the Pontiff who say the Traditional Latin Mass. And you can't tell that I'm a Catholic?

No, I am not a sexist.

Women are to keep their silence in chrurches, the Scriptures say so.
Of course the word Catholic means universal. It means that all men of all times are called to be members of the Church and that the Church exists outside of time and does not change.
Traditional European culture is assisitng at the Traditional Latin Mass, praying the Rosary as a family, having a bonfire on St. John's Eve, eating crepes on Epiphany, and all other Catholic traditions that originated in Europe. The reason why traditional European culture is the greatest culture is becuase it grew and evolved with the Church and became fully Catholic.[/quote]

i meant by 'youre not catholic, are you' to mean 'are you a catholic?' your info says 'hello i do not rep the church' and taht you are a seperated bretheran, so i am assuming that you are not. what seperated bretherans stand for, i do not know, but tht is probably the reason for our conflict.

and women have just as much right to speak in churches as men do, i dont care what scripture says. and i know that sounds horrible, but i really dont mean it that way. times change, traditions change. deal with it.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='iggyjoan' post='1243200' date='Apr 14 2007, 05:30 PM']i meant by 'youre not catholic, are you' to mean 'are you a catholic?' your info says 'hello i do not rep the church' and taht you are a seperated bretheran, so i am assuming that you are not. what seperated bretherans stand for, i do not know, but tht is probably the reason for our conflict.

and women have just as much right to speak in churches as men do, i dont care what scripture says. and i know that sounds horrible, but i really dont mean it that way. times change, traditions change. deal with it.[/quote]

My "hello, I don't rep" title is because some of my past posts have been considered uncharitable and having "rad-trad" ideas in them...

Your comment on how you don't care what the Scriptures say makes you sound like a modernist who believes the following condemned and proscribed errors:

[quote][b]Lamentabili Sane of Pope St. Pius X:[/b]
9. They display excessive simplicity or ignorance who believe that God is really the author of the Sacred Scriptures.
[url="http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10lamen.htm"]http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10lamen.htm[/url][/quote]

[quote][b]Lamentabili Sane of Pope St. Pius X: [/b]
11. Divine inspiration does not extend to all of Sacred Scriptures so that it renders its parts, each and every one, free from every error.
[url="http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10lamen.htm"]http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10lamen.htm[/url][/quote]

And the Church does not change with time. The error that Christian Truth changes was also condemned:

[quote][b]Lamentabili Sane of Pope St. Pius X: [/b]
59. Christ did not teach a determined body of doctrine applicable to all times and all men, but rather inaugurated a religious movement adapted or to be adapted to different times and places.
[url="http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10lamen.htm"]http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10lamen.htm[/url][/quote]

[iggyjoan]

o ok.

and im not stupid. i know God did not physically write the scripture. he.. "inspired" specific others to write them.

the church may not change, but it really is a matter of opinion when it comes to female alter servers.

[Knight of the Holy Rosary]

[quote]but it really is a matter of opinion when it comes to female alter servers[/quote]Where did you get that idea?

[quote] I meant by 'youre not catholic, are you' to mean 'are you a catholic?' your info says 'hello i do not rep the church'[/quote]

[quote]i dont care what scripture says.[/quote]

I wouldn't question someone's catholicity and then make such a heretical statement.

But....whatever makes you most comfortable I guess....even if little ole' things like Scripture and Tradition stand in your way.

Edited April 15, 2007 by Knight of the Holy Rosary