Altar Girls

[pyranima]

part of this is a rant the other part is to get the opinion of others.

As a future priest(i hope) i like to have discussions about the the Liturgy and the function of roles in the liturgy, it seems to me that one of the most misunderstood roles is that of the alter BOY.

a famous question of mine is what is the purpose of an alter boy? the common answer i get is the alter boys function is to serve the priest. its about this time i start yelling and cursing and telling someone (in most cases a priest) to wake up and smell the theological roses. The very and i mean very last function of being an alter boy is to assist the priest in serving Holy Mass. the very first function of the alter boy is to discern a vocation (to married life or the priesthood). i describe this idea in simple terms, what is the purpose of dating. most people will say its to go out and have a good time, this would be wrong (this idea of what dating is also explains why our society is so screwed up). The reason for dating is to determine IF God has called you to the vocation of married life, and if you determine he has the other purpose of dating is who has God called you to marry. so what does this have to do with being an alter boy? when you are an alter boy you are dating, every time you serve at Holy Mass as an alter boy you are on a date a date with Christ a date with God the Father a Date with the Holy Spirit and a Date with the Church(who all priests are Married to). just like its a good idea for young men to date lots of young women its also a good idea for young men to serve at many Masses and even in different parishes.

about this time i generally get two objections, the first is as follows: “but not all young ‘people’ who serve at Mass are discerning for the priesthood” this is rather a silly and stupid objection when one things about it. every time you go on a date you don’t think “this is the person i am going to marry” or “i think i want to marry this person” the first several (in fact every date for the first 4 months or so) dates are really about learning about each other finding out what each others favorite food is what your favorite color is, you may move on from the person then come back a year or two later and want to try again because you think you missed something the first time and you know your really interested in this person. in this same way it could be years after the young man has grown up he discovers he has a vocation to the Priesthood, he may have no clue God is calling him then one day wake up and go “wow how did i miss that one” IT HAPPENS! Alter boy programs should be designed with the intent of bringing up young men to be strong leaders in the community and to be good fathers be they Priest or Married fatherhood is fatherhood. and as said above the vocation for the priesthood may manifest itself later even though the young man or boy has served for years without a clue of his vocation.

the second objection is “well girls should be able to serve Mass because they can be nuns and serving Mass could be a way for them to discern a vocation to the religious life”. again this one doesn’t float either, being an alter “server”*cough*boy *cough* is suppose to help one discern for the PRIESTHOOD NOT religious life though part of the discernment of an alter boy is if he is called to be married or to be a religious he is dating the church by being an alter server. to promote alter girls is to promote a perverse lesbianism withing the Church. now the objection to that last comment “isn’t saying alter girls promote lesbianism a little extreme?”, that is a good question think it over. The Church is a woman… need i say more, for those less astute i will, the Church is female girls are… well female, 1 female dating 1 female = 2 females dating each other, whats another word for that… oh yes lesbianism thats right, and last i checked the Church frowned on same sex relations. a boy or a young man is DATING the Church.

ok so i am almost to the end of my rant. ok so i think i have made my case pretty clear lesbianism out alter boys in… so what do you think? i should mention that i do think there should be some kind of program set up to help young girls in their vocation, but the fact of the matter is women do not belong at the alter.

[mod]title edit: spelling. -777[/mod]

[Aloysius]

brilliant!

I call them "girl altar boys"

but yah, your point is well received. for official support, try Redemptionis Sacramentum which makes it clear that boys are preferable to serve after the manner of an acolyte for the sake of discerning the priesthood. it also makes mention of the allowance of altar girls if the bishop thinks its necessary but it still has strong wording to support the cause for altar boys.

[homeschoolmom]

Didja intentionally misspell altar in the subject line?

[JesusIPray]

[quote]but the fact of the matter is women do not belong at the alter.[/quote]

I totally agree with that.

I must say though, I was a girl altar boy for several years because there were no boys who would step up to the plate and do what young men should be doing.

That was about 4 years ago, when I was around 10 or 11. Now, I have thought about it, and I think that there should be no women at the alter. It's almost starting to set the impression saying "do not exclude women" type thing. But this is where women should not be excluded, but not make it their business to be up there.

When they say that when man becomes a priest, he marries the Church, a female. And when I hear young ladies talking about becoming a nun, or older nuns, they say that they literally fell in love with Christ, as if He were a person they could spend the rest of their life with (of course they do, but I'm saying it as in an actual marriage with wedding vows and an actual husband here on earth).

So as you said, pyranima, it would be as if a female was trying to "date" another female, being an altar boy, since the Church is a female.

I would even prefer if women were not Eucharistic Ministers. I like receiving from man, it seems more as the way it should be. But of course, thats me being fussy, and they need some women to be Eucharistic Ministers because they are truely needed.

[Didymus]

so, how is JPII's allowance of altar girls suppose to be taken? I'm sure he wasn't all about this whole lesbian thing.

[Lterrebrood]

Wow. That's a really extreme idea for me.
It wouldn't go far with the people I know.

[Mr.Cat]

[quote][b]1 Corinthians 14:34 [/b]
"Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/53014.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/53014.htm[/url][/quote]Women are commanded to keep silent and not to have authority of teaching in the Church, this command of Saint Paul the Apostle is in reflecting the Jewish Temple System that the Catholic Church proceeds to being the Universal Religion of God.[quote][b]Code of Canon Law for the Latin Rite[/b]
[b]Can. 230 §1[/b]. Lay men who possess the age and qualifications established by decree of the conference of bishops can be admitted on a stable basis through the prescribed liturgical rite to the ministries of lector and acolyte. Nevertheless, the conferral of these ministries does not grant them the right to obtain support or remuneration from the Church.
[b]§2[/b]. Lay persons can fulfill the function of lector in liturgical actions by temporary designation. All lay persons can also perform the functions of commentator or cantor, or other functions, according to the norm of law.
[b]§3[/b]. When the need of the Church warrants it and ministers are lacking, lay persons, even if they are not lectors or acolytes, can also supply certain of their duties, namely, to exercise the ministry of the word, to preside offer liturgical prayers, to confer baptism, and to distribute Holy Communion, according to the prescripts of the law.
[url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PV.HTM"]http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PV.HTM[/url][/quote]There is a distinction made between the ordained faithful, male ministers, and then those lay persons (never referring to women) that assist upon the altar. Therefore, the permission for women to be on the altar to assist is merely an indult practice that can be abolished by the Pope, the Congregation for Divine Worship, the Conference of Bishops, the local Bishop, or even the Priest saying Mass for that Mass for the Bishop may not force him to use female altar severs.[quote][b]Concerning the use of Female Altar Servers
From the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments[/b]
On July 27, 2001

“[u]In accord with the above cited instructions of the Holy See such an authorization may not, in any way, exclude men or, in particular, boys from service at the altar, nor require that priests of the diocese would make use of female altar servers, since "it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar"[/u] [b][u]Indeed, the obligation to support groups of altar boys will always remain, not least of all due to the well known assistance that such programs have provided since time immemorial in encouraging future priestly vocations[/u][/b].”

“Therefore, in the event that Your Excellency found it opportune to authorize service of women at the altar, [u]it would remain important to explain clearly to the faithful the nature of this innovation, lest confusion might be introduced, thereby [b]hampering the development of priestly vocations[/b][/u].”

"With respect to whether the practice of women serving at the altar would truly be of pastoral advantage in the local pastoral situation, [b]it is perhaps helpful to recall that the [u]non-ordained faithful do not have a right to service at the altar[/u], rather they are capable of being admitted to such service by the Sacred Pastors[/b]"
[url="http://www.adoremus.org/CDW-AltarServers.html"]http://www.adoremus.org/CDW-AltarServers.html[/url][/quote]Altar Boys will always take precedence over female altar servers and in fact it is mentioned that the non-ordained faithful have “no right” to be upon the altar to assist at all. Therefore, it is not the right of women to be on the altar for likewise it is not the right of men. They then go on to say that the admission of women may hamper priestly vocations something that this ministry was founded for, to inspire vocations.[quote][b]Redemptionis Sacramentum [/b] (On [i]certain matters to be observed or to be avoidedregarding the Most Holy Eucharist[/i])
[b]From the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments[/b]
Wednesday, April 23, 2004

[b]47[/b]. [i]It [b]is altogether laudable to maintain the noble custom by which boys or youths, customarily termed servers, provide service of the altar after the manner of acolytes[/b][/i], and receive catechesis regarding their function in accordance with their power of comprehension. Nor should it be forgotten that a great number of sacred ministers over the course of the centuries have come from among boys such as these. Associations for them, including also the participation and assistance of their parents, should be established or promoted, and in such a way greater pastoral care will be provided for the ministers. Whenever such associations are international in nature, it pertains to the competence of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments to establish them or to approve and revise their statutes. Girls or women may also be admitted to this service of the altar, at the discretion of the diocesan Bishop and in observance of the established norms.

[b]156[/b]. This function is to be understood strictly according to the name by which it is known, that is to say, [u][b]that of extraordinary minister of Holy Communion[/b][/u], and [u]not “special minister of Holy Communion” nor “extraordinary minister of the Eucharist” nor “special minister of the Eucharist”, by which names the meaning of this function is unnecessarily and improperly broadened[/u].
[url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congrega...amentum_en.html[/url][/quote]The Vatican praises the use of males upon the Altars and only says that it is permissible to have females on the altar with the accordance of law. Then in regards to Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion it says they may not be called Eucharistic Ministers and if you read on in this document it leads the reader to believe that the Vatican considers laity giving Holy Communion in the Mass when there is a single able Priest or Deacon present is an abuse. Further they state that only the Priest may confect the Sacrament, give the Sacrament in the persona of Christ, and make the sacramental sign complete.

Personally I believe that female altar servers should be abolished because it is confusing to the faithful, hampers religious vocations to the Priesthood, and it relaxes the force to adopt males to be Altar Boys. For in most Parishes females are taken at the same level as males and even higher than males. In some areas the reason why females serve is because “their brother does it” or “I pay good money to this parish” which shouldn’t be the reasoning at all. Also by allowing girls it makes boys feel that they don’t have an obligation or a primacy to assist over girls, therefore the Church when seeking “happy helpers” girls will jump up leaving boys who could become future Priests in the past.

I think that the direction of the Church that females are to be admitted to the altar only out of “true necessity” should be heeded when there are no "males" to assist.

[Veritas]

+

If I remember correctly, men have preference (according to the documents) at the altar as altar boys. Thus, they are definitely my preference as well. Sadly, this has been ignored and abused.

[Didymus]

and also unfortunately, I would be willing to bet that the number of altar boys is lower because of the number of altar girls at my parish. True, some make the excuse that if more boys signe dup they wouldnt have a need for it, but I'd bet the number of boys would still be higher if it was seen more as a discernment towards the priesthood.

[pyranima]

There is a group called Knights of the Altar (i know i miss spelled it the first time im dyslexic). and as far as it not going well with people too bad people dont like the truth to bad. and as far as JPII, i think he was a good man but just like men he made a HUGE mistake, allowing girls at the alter was not one of the most intelligent things he did. People need to remember that just because he is the Pope doesn't mean he is perfect and every thing he says is right. JPII also spoke out on the war in Iraq he was wrong there too.

[You_are_loved!]

Ok wow i've read all of your points except a few recent ones. I have to say you are right in a sense that it should be young men being alter servers and not girls. i used to feel the same way. Until one day I went to a traditional latin mass and saw that it was teenage boys and above who were serving the mass.

My point is, I believe that in a traditional church and also a Cathedral it should be alter boys serving not girls. However, at a parish it's what the Bishop and the parish priest agrees and deems neccesary or allows it ok for young girls to have an equal opportunity for them to have a better understanding of what it's, i guess, like to be a priest.

It's also allowing them to participate and show service to God. Didn't a woman wash Jesus' feet and serve him in this regard and also give him food? what did he do for her. She did this in silence. She was not asked to wash his feet, but she did it out of love and compassion. Is this not what we are calling the servers to do? Are we not asking them to serve the lord his peoples meal? When the washing of the hands occurs doesn't that also remind you of the washing of Jesus' feet? A woman did this. Women do many great deeds for the Lord and they never go unnoticed by him.

So in a way should young women be able to altar serve? yes I believe they should because they are administering to a need of service. If you disagree than I am sorry for that.

PS. I too am discerning to be a priest. May God's Blessings be upon you and your family.

[Sojourner]

I think it would be interesting to see statistics on how many priests were altar servers as boys. I did a quick google search and didn't come up with anything relevant, but I do think that would be interesting to see if there is in actuality a correlation between the two.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='God_loves_all_of_you!' post='1192195' date='Feb 12 2007, 02:15 AM']
Ok wow i've read all of your points except a few recent ones. I have to say you are right in a sense that it should be young men being alter servers and not girls. i used to feel the same way. Until one day I went to a traditional latin mass and saw that it was teenage boys and above who were serving the mass.

My point is, I believe that in a traditional church and also a Cathedral it should be alter boys serving not girls. However, at a parish it's what the Bishop and the parish priest agrees and deems neccesary or allows it ok for young girls to have an equal opportunity for them to have a better understanding of what it's, i guess, like to be a priest.

It's also allowing them to participate and show service to God. Didn't a woman wash Jesus' feet and serve him in this regard and also give him food? what did he do for her. She did this in silence. She was not asked to wash his feet, but she did it out of love and compassion. Is this not what we are calling the servers to do? Are we not asking them to serve the lord his peoples meal? When the washing of the hands occurs doesn't that also remind you of the washing of Jesus' feet? A woman did this. Women do many great deeds for the Lord and they never go unnoticed by him.

So in a way should young women be able to altar serve? yes I believe they should because they are administering to a need of service. If you disagree than I am sorry for that.

PS. I too am discerning to be a priest. May God's Blessings be upon you and your family.
[/quote]
If you have enough boys you don't need girl altarboys. However, I find girls make excellent readers.

[You_are_loved!]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1192305' date='Feb 12 2007, 07:08 AM']
If you have enough boys you don't need girl altarboys. However, I find girls make excellent readers.
[/quote]


In our Parish we have a lot of altar servers boys and girls. We've had both sexes serve for as long as i've been there.

Just because you have enough, doesn't mean it's great to have more. Ever heard the saying the more the merrier.

[Mr.Cat]

Respectfully disagreed, the use of females upon the altar is to supplement a lack of able males. I feel that the thought of “equality” between male and female servers is exactly what the Vatican documents oppose, even though the Vatican has granted indult to allow female altar servers.