Homophobia

[mroger]

Saw the horns off the wicked! I think it's time to wash our hands of the sodomites, and go lookin for dinner, ya know what I mean. Just let evil be evil and stay away from it in any case.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1192033' date='Feb 12 2007, 12:06 AM']
Nah just tell them they are heterophobes.
[/quote]

Nice. Just do as cmom says, and essentially play their game. I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth but if anyone cries phobia just give it right back. Don't forget to stick to absolutism. Anyone notice that they all seem to be relativists?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Paddington' post='1192066' date='Feb 12 2007, 12:57 AM']
You think all sins are the same?
Consentual and rape are the same?
In a trusting relationship and as a fling are the same?
Fornication with your girlfriend is the same as fornication with a goat?

Your hateful comments prove that the gay-rights crowd has a point.
[/quote]
Well that sure was a non-sequitor.

No, all sins are not the same, but no sins are good and deserving of rewards by society.
Homosexual sodomy may not be at the same level of depravity as pedophilia or bestiality, but like them, it is sin against nature and an abomination to the Lord.
St. Thomas Aquinas ranked homosexuality second only to bestiality in level of depravity.
The things listed are all grave sins, and undeserving of benefits.
No sin, and especially not unnatural vice, should be rewarded by law.

Speaking harshly of sin is not "hate" towards people. We are to hate the sin, love the sinner. Rewarding sin, and speaking "nicely" of it does no service to the sinner.

[quote]Apples and oranges.
I didn't mention anything about gay-marriage.
But, what about getting health care for a significant other like the other employees who do the same amount of work? I'm not suggesting that every company be forced into this. But, at universities and government offices and such where there is not an "owner" to speak of, it should happen. I would just prefer universal health care. But in the meantime, yep.
It is not a bad thing for somebody to get medical treatment. "Give to him who asks of you."
The other thing now.....What if their s.o. is the only person that wants to visit them during family hours? (it happens) What if their s.o. is the only person that they want visiting during family hours?[/quote]
If you'd read my post, you'd note that I said nothing about "gay marriage" either (which it should go without saying is contrary to Catholic morality).

There is absolutely no reason on earth why anyone should be rewarded additional health care benefits for being in a homosexual "relationship."

Why should someone be rewarded benefits not given to normal single adults for being a homosexual partner-in-sodomy??
As a single man, with no "significant other," I cannot receive any such additional health care insurance. Should I, if for some depraved reason I decided to "hook-up" with another man in a homosexual "relationship," be rewarded insurance benefits for being his "significant other"????

(And "universal health care" is a very bad idea in practice, but that's a whole other debate.)

As for hospital visiting privileges, those can be arranged legally if necessary, but no one should be legally considered the same as family because he is involved in a homosexual "relationship".
Two (or more) homosexuals sodomizing each other does [b]not[/b] constitute a family, and should not be legally regarded as equal to a family.

Call me hopelessly old-fashioned, call me whatever, but legal and insurance benefits like those mentioned should belong only to married couples, for the purpose of supporting the family.
To give them to unmarried people engaging in sinful activity only rewards sin, and helps weaken the family.

Pardon my bluntness, Paddington, but most of your post has nothing to do with Catholic/Christian morality, and everything to do with modern politically-correct attitudes.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1192033' date='Feb 11 2007, 11:06 PM']
Nah just tell them they are heterophobes.
[/quote]

I remember someone - I think it was Ironmonk - who used the term "moralphobe", although I would also use the word "Godphobe".

[Paddington]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1192329' date='Feb 12 2007, 01:20 PM']
Push for laws that allow people to add non-family people to their policy, such as someone you are caring for, etc. What about someone who takes care of a close and unreleated friend who has no other family? They need coverage. But that's different than saying they are a 'significant other' in a couple relationship and deserve to be covered like a hetero spouse.
[/quote]

That is what I wish I thought of.


[quote name='Socrates' post='1193041' date='Feb 13 2007, 01:30 AM']

Homosexual sodomy may not be at the same level of depravity as pedophilia or bestiality, [/quote]

It sounded different the first time you said it. But that is just me. Sorry.

[quote name='Socrates' post='1193041' date='Feb 13 2007, 01:30 AM']

Pardon my bluntness, Paddington, but most of your post has nothing to do with Catholic/Christian morality, and everything to do with modern politically-correct attitudes.
[/quote]

I'm not Catholic or Christian. Sometimes I answer as if I were, but not to deceive anybody.

[maeveangel]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Unless you are gay, you have no idea. i have spent the past decade trying to change, trying to be chaste, trying to act straight and it was just too much. is it merely biological? is it a deliberately chosen orientation?Who knows? i have been this way since i was a small child. i just didn't have any words for it. Was i molested? No. But if molestation by a member of the same sex was a prerequisite for being gay, then anyone who suffered so would be so. If you are going to look at natural law, yes, sex would primarily be for procreation. But there is also the unitive factor. And in the animal kingdom there are many species who participate in sexual acts other than heterosexual ones.(Sand fleas & lizards come to mind :i am talking about 2 consenting human adults, i am not advocating incest or pedophiliae.)(And yes, i know we are not animals, but if you are going to look at natural law then you are also looking at the behavior of these creatures as well...what comes naturally to them.)

i am speaking up out of charity and i know that for the most part no one on here will agree with everything that i am typing. But i am interested in what you have to say.


So, yes the question i posted somewhere else on here was about me, no cousin. i am sorry that i misled you.

Also, one more thought. How would you feel if one day you woke up and heterosexual sex was out-lawed? Or that you were told that even though you are in love with this person, you could never be intimate with them? And that all of sudden you were treated as a second-class citizen with no tax breaks, no recognition for your spouse, you were expected to act a certain way and to be someone who you know deep in your heart are not. Just imagine this for a moment. i do not wish this on any of you. it is horrible. i wish you all peace. Edited February 13, 2007 by maeveangel

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='maeveangel' post='1193394' date='Feb 13 2007, 11:13 AM']
You have no idea what you are talking about. Unless you are gay, you have no idea. i have spent the past decade trying to change, trying to be chaste, trying to act straight and it was just too much.

Also, one more thought. How would you feel if one day you woke up and heterosexual sex was out-lawed? Or that you were told that even though you are in love with this person, you could never be intimate with them? And that all of sudden you were treated as a second-class citizen with no tax breaks, no recognition for your spouse, you were expected to act a certain way and to be someone who you know deep in your heart are not. Just imagine this for a moment. i do not wish this on any of you. it is horrible. i wish you all peace.
[/quote]
Anyone who is not married is called to be chaste, so everyone here who is not married does know what you are talking about. Sex is NOT the end purpose of a relationship with another human being. People can and do live without sex.
There are also many instances in your life when you can love someone but may not ever marry them, or because of sickness, or disability may not be intimate with them.
Taxes break are for married people to help them raise their children and to support their marriage, they are not rights for any two people who choose to live in the same household.
I wish you peace as well.

[maeveangel]

thank you for responding so gently.

Edited February 13, 2007 by maeveangel

[cmotherofpirl]

If this were the end of our existance we could all do as we wished for there would be no eternal consequences to our actions, just oblivion.
However for those of us who believe this is just the wink of an eye compared to eternity, we must choose for the long term and not for just today, tomorrow, or next year.

[mroger]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1191741' date='Feb 11 2007, 04:14 PM']
If its truly psychological, than it is able to be reversed and some could be happily married. I dont think they're all necessarily called to be single
[/quote]

That is absolutely true. But they have to first change their system of values? Of course, most urban and sub-urban Americans have to change their system of values.

[Veritas]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1191170' date='Feb 10 2007, 10:20 PM']
If someone is just walking around how would you know they are homosexual?
[/quote]

+

I think there is a legitimate revulsion to a man acting like a woman (kind of the quintessential stereotype on television today) -you know, the voice, with the hand and the haircut and more recently, men wearing make-up. Then, there's the "big girl" with short spiked hair wearing combat boots and the army green pants. Again, a legitimate revulsion -gender confusion isn't attractive or a "happy" thing. The odd thing, is that these stereotypes are so often true. Homosexuality is like this sub-culture one joins like being a hippy or a goth and then they all dress and act exactly alike to express their individuality and rebellion (that's logical, isn't it ) Now, obviously, there are exceptions to this, but it's odd how often it's true. I don't know exactly what was meant about "freak-out", but I don't think we should pretend like what is going on is at all normal or acceptable. We aren't to be violent or mean, but I think a questioning look and a look of sorrow are more than appropriate responses.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Veritas' post='1195215' date='Feb 14 2007, 06:20 PM']
+

I think there is a legitimate revulsion to a man acting like a woman (kind of the quintessential stereotype on television today) -you know, the voice, with the hand and the haircut and more recently, men wearing make-up. Then, there's the "big girl" with short spiked hair wearing combat boots and the army green pants. Again, a legitimate revulsion -gender confusion isn't attractive or a "happy" thing. The odd thing, is that these stereotypes are so often true. Homosexuality is like this sub-culture one joins like being a hippy or a goth and then they all dress and act exactly alike to express their individuality and rebellion (that's logical, isn't it ) Now, obviously, there are exceptions to this, but it's odd how often it's true. I don't know exactly what was meant about "freak-out", but I don't think we should pretend like what is going on is at all normal or acceptable. We aren't to be violent or mean, but I think a questioning look and a look of sorrow are more than appropriate responses.
[/quote]

I agree, Veritas. I think you pretty much voiced what I was talking about earlier about people with SSA being relativists... they just follow that crowd... the rebellious relativist. I think all we can do is just as you said. Feel sorrowful, be questioning but also pray!

[maeveangel]

[quote name='geistesswiesenschaften' post='1194976' date='Feb 14 2007, 02:42 PM']
That is absolutely true. But they have to first change their system of values? Of course, most urban and sub-urban Americans have to change their system of values.
[/quote]


i have values and ethics. i believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ Who said, "Love one another as I have loved you." And "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."i believe in the need for salvation, for redemption from Him, for myself and all of us. In the parable of the Good Samaritan, who is my neighbor? Who is YOUR neighbor? It is the person perceived as other, as stranger, as one who is different from you who needs to be loved and accepted as he/she is.


[quote name='Veritas' post='1195215' date='Feb 14 2007, 06:20 PM']
+

I think there is a legitimate revulsion to a man acting like a woman (kind of the quintessential stereotype on television today) -you know, the voice, with the hand and the haircut and more recently, men wearing make-up. Then, there's the "big girl" with short spiked hair wearing combat boots and the army green pants. Again, a legitimate revulsion -gender confusion isn't attractive or a "happy" thing. The odd thing, is that these stereotypes are so often true. Homosexuality is like this sub-culture one joins like being a hippy or a goth and then they all dress and act exactly alike to express their individuality and rebellion (that's logical, isn't it ) Now, obviously, there are exceptions to this, but it's odd how often it's true. I don't know exactly what was meant about "freak-out", but I don't think we should pretend like what is going on is at all normal or acceptable. We aren't to be violent or mean, but I think a questioning look and a look of sorrow are more than appropriate responses.
[/quote]

Forgive me, Veritas, but we gay folk do not all act or dress alike. Some gay people are very open and out and do fit in the stereotype of say, a butch woman or an effeminate man and it is obvious. But we are out there, many of us in plain sight, but our orientation is hidden. If passed you on the street, you would not even think twice. As a gay person, i have attended the same parish for many years. i have participated in several ministries and have worked in the same place for forever. And not many people know about me. But i do agree with you in that "a questioning look and a look of sorrow" are definitely more appropriate responses if one does not agree.

Edited February 14, 2007 by maeveangel

[Socrates]

[quote name='maeveangel' post='1195357' date='Feb 14 2007, 07:50 PM']
i have values and ethics. i believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ Who said, "Love one another as I have loved you." And "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."i believe in the need for salvation, for redemption from Him, for myself and all of us. In the parable of the Good Samaritan, who is my neighbor? Who is YOUR neighbor? It is the person perceived as other, as stranger, as one who is different from you who needs to be loved and accepted as he/she is.
[/quote]
Yes, we are called to help our neighbor, but we are not called to be accepting of sinful behavior. Christ calls sinners (we all are sinners), but He calls us to repent of our sins, and follow Him.
Christ after forgiving the woman caught in adultery, "[b]Go and sin no more[/b]." (John 8:11)

Homosexuality is listed by St. Paul the Apostle as one of the sins which keep one from entering the Kingdom of God:[quote]Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: Neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers [b]nor the effeminate nor liers with mankind[/b] nor thieves nor covetous nor drunkards nor railers nor extortioners shall possess the kingdom of God.[/quote](1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

It is not charity to condone sin, but rather to help the sinner from his sin.

[Anomaly]

What is considered 'effeminate' and who is the judge?
Will any guy who works in a florist be considered effeminate and doomed to hell?
Did Capt. Kangaroo and Mr. Rogers go to hell because they didn't seem manly enough?
Maybe the better translation would be a 'cross dresser'?? LOL