Barack Obama

[cmotherofpirl]

If a candidate is pro-abortion he is not even on my slate of candidates.

How can you vote for a man with no experience?
Who do you think will be pulling his strings?

[kujo]

Again, I ask you this...if our 2 choices for the Presidential election of 2008 are both pro-abortion, [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=64411&pid=1190777&st=0&#entry1190777"]what will you do?[/url]

Barak Obama would not be the first "inexperienced" President we've had in our history. Kennedy was young....George Washington never held a single elected office. In fact, the mere fact that Obama is a US Senator is an oddity, for only 5 of the past 19 presidents have served in the Senate, and only 3 more have served in the House of Representatives.

Would you rather have an entrenched, K-street bureaucrat on the White House (such as Johnsonville brat Cheney or Donald Rumsfeld), or a relative-newbie with motivation to make changes?

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='kujo' post='1190754' date='Feb 10 2007, 02:06 PM']
And what exactly has Bush done that is so great?
[/quote]
We can be happy about the partial birth abortion ban and two seemingly pro-life (and Catholic) justices on the Supreme Court. I say seemingly since we do not not for sure how they would vote. If they are pro-life, as everyone seems to think, it is my understanding that the pro-abortion majority on the court has been cut by one since his taking office.

[kujo]

[quote name='thedude' post='1190822' date='Feb 10 2007, 04:13 PM']
We can be happy about the partial birth abortion ban and two seemingly pro-life (and Catholic) justices on the Supreme Court. I say seemingly since we do not not for sure how they would vote. If they are pro-life, as everyone seems to think, it is my understanding that the pro-abortion majority on the court has been cut by one since his taking office.
[/quote]

Here's the thing about the justices...it really doesn't matter that they are pro-life. Samuel Alito and John Roberts now sit on the Supreme Court ruling based on current laws in our country. Overturning Roe v. Wade and or any other abortion rulings without proper Constitutional precedence would be a tremendous use of judicial activism, the same sort of judicial activism that gave us these decisions in the first place.

Time will tell whether Alito and Roberts will live up to their hype. They seem to be intelligent, qualified guys who would not allow their personal-biases to affect the way they interpret the law. That is what's most important.

[Didymus]

Here is the difference. We know Bush signed the unborn victims of violence bill through and we know he's signed the ban on partial birth abortion. A republican candidate is less likely to go out of his way to reverse this when he reaches office because it was established by a republican predecessor.

not to mention, guess who else was involved in banning partial birth abortion:

McCAIN

he was even voting against it when Clinton was in office. Look at his record.

I urge you not to take a step back in the protection of the unborn, but rather at least keep the country where we are on this issue so that we may progress forward, and not back.

"On abortion, Obama voted against a measure designed to protect what supporters termed live babies born during abortion procedures."
[url="http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2007/01/obamas_record.html"]http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2...mas_record.html[/url]

Edited February 10, 2007 by Didymus

[kujo]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1190861' date='Feb 10 2007, 04:53 PM']
Here is the difference. We know Bush signed the unborn victims of violence bill through and we know he's signed the ban on partial birth abortion. A republican candidate is less likely to go out of his way to reverse this when he reaches office because it was established by a republican predecessor.

not to mention, guess who else was involved in banning partial birth abortion:

McCAIN

he was even voting against it when Clinton was in office. Look at his record.

I urge you not to take a step back in the protection of the unborn, but rather at least keep the country where we are on this issue so that we may progress forward, and not back.

"On abortion, Obama voted against a measure designed to protect what supporters termed live babies born during abortion procedures."
[url="http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2007/01/obamas_record.html"]http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2...mas_record.html[/url]
[/quote]

All of this stuff is true, brother. And I am not going to argue with you about Obama's stance on abortion. I am 100% pro-life and I pray that Senator Brownback gets the Republican nomination; however, in the event that he does not, what are we left with?

[Didymus]

I also am praying for Brownbacks nomination. I need to do more research on McCain myself, cuz there are no conservative candidates anywhere (where are the Ronny Reagans?!!!). My dad was saying something about McCain coming out as 'pro-life' more than he was (pro-life, meaning somewhere around Bush's stance) but I need to look at this further.

Aside from the frustration within the GOP, I think the next year will be very interesting with Hilary and Obama goin at it. I was thinking for the longest time that her team would be able to tear him apart, but she is definitely lacking in charisma, of which he seems to have plenty.

[Didymus]

Here's some stuff I found on McCain's position. (Although its from a senate election)
He seems to be mostly pro-life, but unfortunately allows it in the case of rape, incest, and danger of the mother's death.

He voted against same-sex marriage, but believes it should be left up to the states and thus unfortunately voted against the Constitutional ban.

[url="http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/John_McCain_Abortion.htm"]http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/John_McCain_Abortion.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/John_McCain_SenateMatch.htm"]http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/John_McC...SenateMatch.htm[/url]

Edited February 10, 2007 by Didymus

[Mercy me]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1190774' date='Feb 10 2007, 03:28 PM']
If a candidate is pro-abortion he is not even on my slate of candidates.

How can you vote for a man with no experience?
Who do you think will be pulling his strings?
[/quote]

I agree. The president of the United States is not an entry level executive possition.

[Colleen]

What really irks me is when I hear people all excited about Obama because "he's a great speaker and very charismatic," but don't even know where he stands. They want to vote for him because his speeches sound nice.

He definitely has celebrity going for him, in addition to his rhetorical abilities. Other than that, though, what's terribly exciting about him?

Edited February 11, 2007 by Colleen

[Didymus]

read where he stands in his speech. He may actually have alot of good ideas and experience for the presidency; he just happens to support killing babies even outside the womb.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Colleen' post='1191037' date='Feb 10 2007, 07:55 PM']
What really irks me is when I hear people all excited about Obama because "he's a great speaker and very charismatic," but don't even know where he stands. They want to vote for him because his speeches sound nice.


[/quote]
I've found that reminding people that Hitler was a very charismatic speaker often shuts people up.

[track2004]

Anyone either party nominates will be a bad person and everyone here will have something they absolutely hate about them. Frankly anyone who runs for that job has to be crazy. I'll wait for my party to decide who they like and ponder who will do their best for the interests of the country. In the mean time I'm going to chill out because we still have 21 months til the election.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1191151' date='Feb 10 2007, 10:50 PM']
I've found that reminding people that Hitler was a very charismatic speaker often shuts people up.
[/quote]
THis is why I never watch the candidates on TV, I don't want to be influenced by hype.
However, I do read their speeches.

[kujo]

Yeah, political apathy is wonderful.

Before we compare Obama to Hitler, let's take a step back and realize that Democrats (even the pro-abortion ones) are NOT evil. They have good ideas, as do the Republicans. Neither party has a monopoly on morality.

Also, we must realize that the President doesn't hold singular-authority to do anything for or against abortion. It is the Congress (the Senate and House of Representatives) that pass the bills and the President has to sign them or veto them. Furthermore, the Supreme Court would have to overturn a mountain of cases in order to ban abortions. The only real power that the President has with this issue is appointing Supreme Court justices which, again, need to be approved by the Congress.