An Email Dialogue Between Me And My Friend.

[Jutty1224]

I'm Justin and Beerch is my friend who is a pentacostal. I wasn't sure how to reply to her last message about why give Mary all the praise when we should be praising Jesus.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Justin
To: Beerch
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: Re:


lets now argue about something you don't understand.

----- Original Message -----
From: Beerch
To: Justin
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: Re:


yes but she is not your savior so why give her all that praise when you should be spending all that time on praise for jesus
its ok not getting into an argument or anything just trying to figure out how u think ya know...

----- Original Message -----
From: Justin
To: Beerch
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: Re:


"o and catholics worship mary right?"

no that is the common misconception about us. We DO NOT worship Mary. We honor her as the sinless mother of God. The only human conceived without original sin. She is an intercessor.

----- Original Message -----
From: Beerch
To: Justin
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Re:


ok well i celebrate the same thing we just don't call it that or make a big deal about it. you believe in trinity that is the only difference i think....o and catholics worship mary right?

----- Original Message -----
From: Justin
To: Beerch
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Re:


[url="http://www.nativity.org/Triduum.html"]http://www.nativity.org/Triduum.html[/url] (I googled Easter Triduum to find a website that would explain it and sent her the link)

----- Original Message -----
From: Beerch
To: Justin
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Re:


o i c...why is that? because u r catholic?

----- Original Message -----
From: Justin
To: Beerch
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Re:


no the easter triduum. the most important days of the year.

----- Original Message -----
From: Beerch
To: Justin
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: Re:


what for?

----- Original Message -----
From: Justin
To: Beerch
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: Re:


no i don't. I've been planning on this other job again. i'm just curious about the training schedule and if I'll be free when i need to be. I need to have the evenings of april 5, 6 and 7 off.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

This is your new best friend:

[url="http://motherofallpeoples.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=4&id=76&Itemid=83"]http://motherofallpeoples.com/index.php?op...6&Itemid=83[/url]

[thessalonian]

Elizabeth proclaims "blessed are you among women". Mary in her canticle, not boastfully says "God has done great things for me...all ages shall called me blessed". We do not praise Mary more than Christ and in fact when we say the roary we meditate on Christ's life, death, and resurection primarily. And so the rosary is more about him and his glorious life than her really. It is Christocentric. The Mother leads us to her son, in to a deeper relationship with HIM by having a deeper relationship with his mother, who is our mother. "Woman behold you son, son behold your mother" John 19 and the end of revelations 12, "the devil went off to make war with the woman and her children". The woman in one sense is Mary. Another the Church. Mary is a type of the Church.

[Paddington]

Jutty1224,

If you can explain to Beerch how the rosary is Christ-centered (not that I personally understand it) then you will probably take some of the emotional objections out of it. Leveling emotions can really clear the way. The rosary is a pretty big objection. You still have to contend with the whole concept of communicating with those on the other side of eternity, but it would be a nice start.

You might also want to throw in a "I can see how you think that Catholics hold her up too high - by YOUR standards. It must look like worship to some Protestants." That can be disarming, because it will show that you have empathy and are down-to-earth while still sticking to your guns.
That quote is true. There are quotes that can be pulled out of Catholic tradition (some are not even considered part of the deposit of faith) that look like nothing but ascribing work to Mary that is, to them, only Christ's work. Empathy raises the level of debate for those showing it and for those on the other end. It is always a mistake to want to win every conceivable contest, such as always having a better "appearance of things." Then it will be even easier to convince Beerch that the "appearance of things" is misleading on this issue.

I think that it is necessary to show Beerch that you do not consider Mary to be a different species. Just that she happens to be the best of the same species that we all belong to. That drives it home. Beerch could (subconsciously) think that you consider her a different species.

In the human species, the goal is to "have Christ formed in us." To be "partakers of the divine nature." To have "the mind of Christ." To be "filled with the Holy Spirit." And ultimately to be a "little Christ" in heaven.
The work is to cling to God and have the virtues within an intimate relationship with Christ. So far Mary has the same goal and the same method of obtaining it as us. Beerch should be able to understand that Mary had a massive head start on the "intimate relationship with Christ" thing. We also are called to be intercessors and to bear one another's burdens. That she does this more than others is on one level trivia (I'm not saying it is TRIVIAL.)

So far, there is a big foundation of shared belief about Mary. Beerch will probably take more time to think that Mary is the best apart from Christ. But suggest to Beerch that SOMEBODY is going to be the best, unless there is a tie. I've heard Catholic theologians talk as if Mary could have been a sinner if she were not "passed over" so to speak through the Immaculate Conception. Since I don't know the correct understanding from this point, I'm giving up. But, I hope that helps a little.

Peace,
Paddington