Katholikos Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1185851' date='Feb 5 2007, 09:48 PM'] the other side of the story is that he created a church, not necessarily the CC. [/quote]The first suggestion that Jesus Christ founded a church other than the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church was in the 16th Century when Martin Luther invented the doctrine of the "invisible church of all true believers." Is this the "church" you were referring to, Dairygirl? Luther had to do something to assure Protestants that they belonged to the church Jesus founded, and the "invisible church" was his solution. Protestants had already splintered into conflicting and competing denominations, even before Luther died, much to his regret. When Luther declared his doctrine of Sola Scriptura, he expected all Protestants to believe as he believed. The "deformation" and his novel doctrines of Sola Scriptura and Sole Fide had unintended results -- which today number in the many thousands of conflicting and competing denominations. Historically, there is but one Church founded by Christ for the salvation of the world -- and a whole lot of heresies that have developed over the centuries. Did Jesus teach that all these churches holding conflicting doctrines are true? Naw. Not a chance. There is only one Church -- one fold, one shepherd -- the successor of Peter -- that has the Truth and nothing but the Truth. The Church is the "household of God, the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth" 1 Tm 3:15. God has only one household, one Church -- the Catholic Church. The rest are all man made, in or after the 16th century. Jay ---------------------- Blessed Father Damien, pray for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholimaniac Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 (edited) The other side of the story: The Catholic Church is an apostate church whose members consisted of mostly pagans who brought in their idols and rituals and corrupted the true faith. The Catholic Church was founded either by Constantine @303 AD or by Pope Boniface III in 666 AD. (Even anti-Catholics can't seem to agree on a place, person or date) The True Church was made up of Bible believing Christians who remained hidden from the world and was violently persecuted by the Romish church for centuries until they finally reappeared as today's emergent/simple/organic/NT/house church movement. Thank God, these bible believing Christians kept the true faith alive through two millenia! What a facsinating story! I can see it now.... [b]HIDDEN CHURCH: THE MOVIE[/b] Edited February 6, 2007 by catholimaniac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I think that it would be apt. One could easily speak such a truth by saying that Catholic Church believes she was founded by Christ, with out adding unecessary contraversy or ellimating the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 **The fruits of Non-denominationalism are disunity and confusion.** It could easily be argued jsut as well that the fruits of the CC are disunity and confusion. Disunity as because if the church were not like the CC but more like the orthodox... then the CC is the one causing the disunity by claiming to be the one when it's not, and being too strict. You can figure out confusion. how about I just say the altnerative church is the orthodox church. maybe not hte orthodox church per se, but a structure similar to the orthodox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Holy Rosary Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 The Church does not suffer from dissunity. We have one supreme leader and one Magesterium. Their are those who adhere to the Church's teachings and those who do not. Some people submit to the truth and some people go for what makes them most comfortable. Non-denominationalism, however, has no direction or leadership. They have one book and a thousand different doctrines all of which claim divine inspiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 i'm not saying you suffer from disunity. i'm saying you're causing disunity amoung christian denominations and groups and people as you claim to be the one chruch, when hte one church does have a head like the CC. you are saying you are right when you are not. is the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Holy Rosary Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 (edited) So...our unity causes disunity? We profess Catholicism to be the one true Christian Church because it was in fact established by Christ Himself; historically speaking you cannot get around this. Edited February 6, 2007 by Knight of the Holy Rosary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholimaniac Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1186518' date='Feb 6 2007, 05:38 PM'] i'm not saying you suffer from disunity. i'm saying you're causing disunity amoung christian denominations and groups and people as you claim to be the one chruch, when hte one church does have a head like the CC. you are saying you are right when you are not. is the argument. [/quote] Let's see...you're blaming the Catholic Church for 50,000+ Protestant denominations and sects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1186477' date='Feb 6 2007, 04:46 PM'] **The fruits of Non-denominationalism are disunity and confusion.** It could easily be argued jsut as well that the fruits of the CC are disunity and confusion. Disunity as because if the church were not like the CC but more like the orthodox... then the CC is the one causing the disunity by claiming to be the one when it's not, and being too strict. You can figure out confusion. how about I just say the altnerative church is the orthodox church. maybe not hte orthodox church per se, but a structure similar to the orthodox. [/quote]Drum roll, please. Dairygirl is about to announce a new denomination -- the Similar To But Not Quite Orthodox Church, the One True Church founded by Jesus Christ for the salvation of the world (NOT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) We as Catholics should promote [u]academic freedom and discussion[/u] to allow all sides of the argument to be proposed and defended, but at the same time as Catholics we are to promote [u]legitimacy to propose what is right and proper [b]giving it primacy[/b][/u]. We benefit to understand the many perspectives of Saint Peter the Apostle and the Papacy, but we must not confuse understanding their position with the [u]accepting of truth that [b]our Blessed Lord founded the Church upon Saint Peter the Apostle[/b] to be the first [b][color="#FF0000"]Vicar of Christ[/color][/b][/u]. I vote yes... Edited February 7, 2007 by Mr.CatholicCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 the 50000 sects, which is actually probably more given individual people beliefs are like churches... they at least usually can say they think they are right, but not necessarily. the CC insists it's right. if the true church is not suppose to consist of people saying they are necessarily right, the CC is the primary church causing disunity amoung the different churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Holy Rosary Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) The Church is not about 'always being right'. The Scriptures state that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. It's not about 'I'm right and your'e wrong', Jesus Christ has sent His Holy Spirit to guide His Church. [quote]the CC is the primary church causing disunity amoung the different churches.[/quote] This is rediculous. What would you prefer the Church to say? "We are not guided by the Holy Spirit. We are not the Church of Jesus Christ. Jesus didn't mean it when He said He would be with us until the end of time and Him telling Peter to feed His sheep was just a joke." ? Edited February 7, 2007 by Knight of the Holy Rosary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 If the CC was the one true church, then it would be legit for it to claim and it wouldn't be a source of disunity. (well, it would, but only disunity from those who are not in the truth but i digress) If the CC is not the one true church, then it is a source of disunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eilis Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1186815' date='Feb 6 2007, 09:14 PM'] If the CC was the one true church, then it would be legit for it to claim and it wouldn't be a source of disunity. (well, it would, but only disunity from those who are not in the truth but i digress) If the CC is not the one true church, then it is a source of disunity. [/quote] But the CC [i]is[/i] the one true church. I'm confused about your position. Do you disagree with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 i'm actually undecided whether it is true or not. i live life erring on the side that it is not true. my only point to remind you is that others who think the CC is wrong would say the CC is then a source of disunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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