traichuoi Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Charismatic movement...eh...not my cuppa either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJames Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 (edited) [quote name='Zkelly' post='1182575' date='Feb 1 2007, 05:51 PM'] Actually, I was discerning the CFR's before entering the diocesian seminary. I stayed in their novitiate friary for about a week and found them to be very traditional and not very charismatic. True, some of them are charismatics and they do like to have a lot of youth things that, IMHO, appear to be charismatic but I found none of this at any of their Masses. So, I don't think they're an accurate measuring stick on witch to measure the charismatic movement. (please note that I'm not making a judgement about the Charismatic movement, but just saying that the CFR's can't represent it in the Church as a whole.) [/quote] [u]from the Franciscan-Archives.org[[/u]color=#000000] "Communities of Friars Minor which separated(reformed) from the (principle) Order [b]Frati Minori Rinnovati,[/b] a reform of the OFMCap, Palermo, Italy,1975 [Mitigated Novus Ordo] [b]The Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate[/b], a reform of the OFMConv., from Avellino, Italy [Mitigated Novus Ordo -- Kolbian] [b]The Franciscan Friars of the Renewal[/b], a reform of the OFMCap, New York City, USA [Mitigated Novus Ordo, Charismatic] [b]The Friars of the Primitive Observance,[/b] a reform of the Friars of the Renewal (Immaculate Conception Friary, 107 Rivet St., New Bedford, MA 02744, USA) [Mitigated Novus Ordo Charismatic] [b] The Capuchin Friars of Morgon[/b], France: (Couvent St. François, Morgon, 69910 Villié-Morgon, France) [Mitigated Traditional non-Indult] [b]The Conventual Friars of Tonalà[/b], Mexico: (Frailes Conventuales, Balsas #62, Villas de Buenos Aires, Colonia Camichines II, Tonalà, Jalisco, Mexico) [Traditional non-Indult]" Edited February 6, 2007 by EJames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 (edited) [quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1185539' date='Feb 5 2007, 04:16 PM'] When done in the proper setting (not at Mass) then I don't have a problem with it. It's when you want to wave your arms around like a banshee at Mass to the rock music that I start to have a problem. It's distracting and unnecessary. I think the Mass and Adoration could easily do without all the hand-clapping and arm-waving. In fact, I know MANY who do without it and are very strong, vibrant young Catholics. It's not [i]necessary[/i], it's [i]preferred[/i]. Again.. some people actually reach a place in their faith where sitting and listening to the word of God ALONE is enough. The idea may seem weird but I don't think it's incorrect. [/quote] I agree about keeping Mass a more solemn experience, but it doesn't have to be a funeral either. We're remembering the Resurrection, after all! Most Masses are more like funerals than celebrations. Of course, for those of us who understand what's happening, it's different, but we shouldn't leave everyone else in back of the church. In my book, the New Evangelization will be a success when Mass gains a reputation for its joyfulness. In the retreat I was at, there was no hand-waving or music during Adoration. It was completely quiet. We had an hour of silence to pray, reflect, walk around outside, journal, adore the Blessed Sacrament, and listen to God. Mass was upbeat, joyful, and reverent. If you had walked in there, you would have no idea it was the middle of a "charismaniac" retreat ;-) That's why I'm convinced that the Traditionalist folks and Charismatic folks can and should work together, gain from each other's strengths, and there is no limit to what God can do. If you don't desire the outward manifestation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, that's fine, but be sure to build up those who do and encourage them because God can use you to help them appreciate and love the Church's traditional elements. After all, it's the sacramental life, Adoration, Rosary, etc. that cement the joy and spiritual high experienced at these charismatic retreats. Edited February 6, 2007 by LouisvilleFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJames Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 (edited) [quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1186017' date='Feb 5 2007, 08:46 PM'] I agree about keeping Mass a more solemn experience, but it doesn't have to be a funeral either. We're remembering the Resurrection, after all! Most Masses are more like funerals than celebrations. Of course, for those of us who understand what's happening, it's different, but we shouldn't leave everyone else in back of the church. In my book, the New Evangelization will be a success when Mass gains a reputation for its joyfulness. In the retreat I was at, there was no hand-waving or music during Adoration. It was completely quiet. We had an hour of silence to pray, reflect, walk around outside, journal, adore the Blessed Sacrament, and listen to God. Mass was upbeat, joyful, and reverent. If you had walked in there, you would have no idea it was the middle of a "charismaniac" retreat ;-) That's why I'm convinced that the Traditionalist folks and Charismatic folks can and should work together, gain from each other's strengths, and there is no limit to what God can do. If you don't desire the outward manifestation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, that's fine, but be sure to build up those who do and encourage them because God can use you to help them appreciate and love the Church's traditional elements. After all, it's the sacramental life, Adoration, Rosary, etc. that cement the joy and spiritual high experienced at these charismatic retreats. [/quote] the most truly 'charismatic' Mass one can assist at is a well sung Byzantine Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom... : [url="http://saintelias.com/mp3/pascha2005/pascha2005_04.mp3"]http://saintelias.com/mp3/pascha2005/pascha2005_04.mp3[/url] [url="http://saintelias.com/ca/feastday/pascha.php"]http://saintelias.com/ca/feastday/pascha.php[/url] Ukrainian Catholic [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emcry2SU4vI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emcry2SU4vI[/url] Edited February 6, 2007 by EJames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 [quote name='EJames' post='1186001' date='Feb 5 2007, 10:24 PM'] [u]from the Franciscan-Archives.org[[/u]color=#000000] "Communities of Friars Minor which separated(reformed) from the (principle) Order [b]Frati Minori Rinnovati,[/b] a reform of the OFMCap, Palermo, Italy,1975 [Mitigated Novus Ordo] [b]The Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate[/b], a reform of the OFMConv., from Avellino, Italy [Mitigated Novus Ordo -- Kolbian] [b]The Franciscan Friars of the Renewal[/b], a reform of the OFMCap, New York City, USA [Mitigated Novus Ordo, Charismatic] [b]The Friars of the Primitive Observance,[/b] a reform of the Friars of the Renewal (Immaculate Conception Friary, 107 Rivet St., New Bedford, MA 02744, USA) [Mitigated Novus Ordo Charismatic] [b] The Capuchin Friars of Morgon[/b], France: (Couvent St. François, Morgon, 69910 Villié-Morgon, France) [Mitigated Traditional non-Indult] [b]The Conventual Friars of Tonalà[/b], Mexico: (Frailes Conventuales, Balsas #62, Villas de Buenos Aires, Colonia Camichines II, Tonalà, Jalisco, Mexico) [Traditional non-Indult]" [/quote] What point were you making with this information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJames Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 [quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1186034' date='Feb 5 2007, 09:04 PM'] What point were you making with this information? [/quote] oh, just that the CFRrs are listed as Charismatic, on the Franciscan Archives, and on the International Conference of Charismatic renewal..thats all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aalpha1989 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 read chapter 14 of 1 Corinthians.... he confuses me about speaking in tongues...he says its a good thing, but its useless if no one can interpret it? No, he says its useless for YOU for him to speak in tongues if you dont understand him....but also that five words of the mind are better than 10 000 words in tongues? that makes them sound kinda useless to me...but then paul talks aobut how happy he is that he speaks in tongues more than "any of you".....wow i'm confused.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicemary Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 When I have seen people 'speaking in tongues' it was so phoney it was laughable. I certainly do not need to speak in gibberish to receive the Lord. Psychiatric patients often do that kind of rambling, I do not need it in my church service. Sorry guys, I am completely turned off by the whole charismatic movement. I also doubt if many communities would allow you to practice this form of religion. I just don't think it would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmaD2006 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 First thing ... there's a part of me that wishes that this discussion moves out of vocation station; I think the original question has been answered (i.e. it can foster vocations) within the first few posts, and it really has (mostly) evolved into elaborating/discussing the movement instead of the question. I've decided to not enter the debate about the charismatic movement at all but to say my two general cents below. Realize that every movement/spirituality in the Church has the potential for abuse. Because of our humanity and original sin. And, not every movement/spirituality is for everyone in the Church. But each movement/spirituality is there to help those whom "the shoe fits" to grow in sanctity. I have examples of my own where a particular movement or spirituality "grates" against me, *but* in respect to those that may be very partial to those movements/spiritualities I won't mention them by name. This board covers the gambit, and I respect that. That is part of the beauty of vocation station where so many people can be together that are called in different ways. Each movement/spirituality in the Church has the potential to foster vocations ... as I would say in layman's terms "Jesus could choose to dangle a different 'carrot' in front of someone to lure that person to Him". Isn't it wonderful that He tailors the way He draws someone to Him to fit that person perfectly? And that is also part of the beauty of our Church. -- Carmen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 and with that, the thread is closed. if you want to debate this further, please bring it to the debate table. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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