Aloysius Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 The priest's advice does not alter whether or not the penitent is forgiven. They may not be culpable for further sins they commit on the advice of the priest. But these sins are evils; and guess who IS culpable-- the priest. I do believe many priests will burn in eternal hellfire for acting [i]in persona diabola[/i] instead of [i]in persona Christi[/i] by convincing people their sins aren't really sins and they can just keep doing it and build sin upon sin upon sin. The priest who intentionally backs away into this "matter of conscience thing"; if he absolved a person knowing he had no purpose to ammend his life: he will answer for it on judgement day. He should know better. Any penitent who confesses with no purpose of ammendment is not really receiving sacramental absolution... all that can be hoped for them is that they are not deemed culpable for their ignorance of morality. But a penitent who receives bad advice but confessed in good faith and did not intend to do any of the sins he was confessing again receives absolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholimaniac Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 [quote name='Anomaly' post='1182216' date='Feb 1 2007, 12:31 PM'] Regardless of the methods of the reporters, right or wrong, what about addressing what the reporters found? That is reality, isn't it? [/quote] The reality is this reporter misrepresented himself and created lies, which he told to a priest. Why should I believe anything he says? His methods destroy any credibility he has and frankly I don't believe that this reporter is telling the truth in his report. Once someone tells one lie, how are you to believe anything else he said? The guy is more in need of our prayers than anything else. Pax, Tad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 sadly, the existence of such priests is not really in question. there are liberal priests who refuse to enforce the Church's teachings on certain things in the confessional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 [quote name='Raphael' post='1181674' date='Jan 31 2007, 05:56 PM'] Just for clarification, a "confessor" is the priest who hears confessions. A "penitent" is the person confessing. [/quote] I was confused when I read that in the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 [quote name='catholimaniac' post='1182299' date='Feb 1 2007, 02:11 PM'] The reality is this reporter misrepresented himself and created lies, which he told to a priest. Why should I believe anything he says? His methods destroy any credibility he has and frankly I don't believe that this reporter is telling the truth in his report. Once someone tells one lie, how are you to believe anything else he said? The guy is more in need of our prayers than anything else. Pax, Tad [/quote]Dude, one only has to spend an hour surfing Catholic sites on the internet to see that reality of almost every priest having a different opinion. Spend an hour just looking at some of the commentary threads posted on open mic. So tell me. Once you come accross a priest telling you one lie, are you ever going to believe anything else he says? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 A lot of people are bashing the Priests on this one, but I tend to give the Priest the benefit of the doubt. There very well could be more to this story, or the way the sin was confessed, or if absolution was given, ect ect... [quote name='Anomaly' post='1182316' date='Feb 1 2007, 02:25 PM'] Dude, one only has to spend an hour surfing Catholic sites on the internet to see that reality of almost every priest having a different opinion. Spend an hour just looking at some of the commentary threads posted on open mic. So tell me. Once you come accross a priest telling you one lie, are you ever going to believe anything else he says? [/quote] Oh please... have you ever told a lie? Should we discount everything you say?? Priests are human; they sin. Truth is truth regardless of whose speaking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 [quote name='rkwright' post='1182320' date='Feb 1 2007, 03:38 PM'] A lot of people are bashing the Priests on this one, but I tend to give the Priest the benefit of the doubt. There very well could be more to this story, or the way the sin was confessed, or if absolution was given, ect ect... Oh please... have you ever told a lie? Should we discount everything you say?? Priests are human; they sin. Truth is truth regardless of whose speaking it. [/quote]Exactly what I'm saying. I'm not bashing priests, I'm making the point that priests have varying opinions on lots of things. I am asking leading questions to how that affects your understanding of what the Church is and isn't. When is or isn't a priest acting on behalf of the Church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 [quote name='rkwright' post='1182320' date='Feb 1 2007, 03:38 PM'] A lot of people are bashing the Priests on this one, but I tend to give the Priest the benefit of the doubt. There very well could be more to this story, or the way the sin was confessed, or if absolution was given, ect ect... Oh please... have you ever told a lie? Should we discount everything you say?? Priests are human; they sin. Truth is truth regardless of whose speaking it. [/quote] that's all true: and seeing as this is a situation of a fake penitent committing fake crimes in order to get a story (and as such, who knows how exactly he worded his confessions et cetera) I chose to try to direct it towards a hypothetical in principal discussion. it doesn't say if the priest absolved him. you know, if he didn't absolve him and said "that's a matter of conscience" I wouldn't have much of a problem with what he said there. he would thusly have refused to absolve someone who had not exhibited a firm purpose of ammendment, and did not intend to recommend either fornication with a condom or fornication without a condom. one cannot recommend either of those options at all; and while morally one option piles up two mortal sins while the other includes just one; the fact that the sex is already immoral makes for no reason why the sex has to be protected as sacred-- it is no longer sacred, it is not supposed to be lifegiving. it is killing grace in the souls of both involved; and while the priest cannot recomend he use a condom, he can neither recommend that he not use a condom. as such "a matter of conscience" is not too bad an answer. if he leaves it up to his conscience fully, he won't even have sex. if he doesn't let his conscience lead him out of sex, he'll likely have a conscience formed on the basic principals of doing no harm to others but not one formed by any form of sexual morality and would thus opt to use a condom. but if the priest chose to absolve him: the priest was absolutely wrong and all the codemnations I said would apply: hellfire and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theologian in Training Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 [quote name='Anomaly' post='1182322' date='Feb 1 2007, 03:42 PM'] Exactly what I'm saying. I'm not bashing priests, I'm making the point that priests have varying opinions on lots of things. I am asking leading questions to how that affects your understanding of what the Church is and isn't. When is or isn't a priest acting on behalf of the Church? [/quote] And you now see why many priests not just call upon but plead with the Holy Spirit to lead him in the direction he needs to go. It is very easy to make assumptions on the part of the priest, but unless you are sitting in that confessional you can never truly understand what a priest goes through. He is a human being called to do the work of God, by acting in the Person of Christ, do you know how hard it is to allow yourself to be that instrument time and time again? This is why it is important for a priest to not just understand what the Church teaches but live, know, and know how to convey that to the people. This is why it is so important, in this day and age, for a priest to be holy, because when he starts acting from his own viewpoints, his own opinion, confusion abounds, the way it has here and for many who have read that article. Please pray for our priests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 We are only hearing one side of this story, and since we can't hear the priests' versions and we know the reporter acted in a deceitful and disgusting manner, we will known know the truth of what the reporter claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 But what about the reality of the faithful getting different answers at different times? There is confusion and dissension and contradiction and discord. Beyond the methods of the reporter, it seems that there is little thought given to the reality of what the reporter 'may' have found. Do you people really think the reporter didn't get different answers and opinions from various priests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 [quote name='Anomaly' post='1182391' date='Feb 1 2007, 05:26 PM'] But what about the reality of the faithful getting different answers at different times? There is confusion and dissension and contradiction and discord. Beyond the methods of the reporter, it seems that there is little thought given to the reality of what the reporter 'may' have found. Do you people really think the reporter didn't get different answers and opinions from various priests? [/quote] I think he probably got different answers and that is unfortunate, since the teaching of Christ is clear. I don't see how we can respond in any way to that but to pray for our priests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 That is horrible news, that journalist, not only commited a grave sin upon himself, he also sould be fired for what he did. its just sad, that people would do this. I hate to judge but its truth, that journalist did commit sin, Lord have mercy on that person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddington Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 It would be fascinating and OK to have a study where priests say what they think they WOULD say if it were truly during the Sacrament. People performing the study would have to be knowledgeable too so that they know which questions to ask and how to correctly understand the answers. That would be great. I wonder if anything like that has been done. Somebody could act as the penitent too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 It would also be acceptable to interview people who had actually confessed: the seal of confession applies only to the priest not to the penitent, he may choose to dispense the seal and answer a reporter's questions. a couple random undercover sacrilidgeous confessions don't provide much of a scientific survey of what priests are actually advising penitents. they said one priest said the right thing while another priest said another thing... with those faulty statistics we could think 50% of priests were following Church teaching and 50% were not! ridiculous. if they want the data so bad for a story, they ought to conduct anonymous polling of Catholics... at least give us accurate and analyzable data to work with here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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